Only when need demonstrated - concealed.

Too many people have quick tempers - you get two young drunk morons fighting over a women - that is bad enough, one or more of them carrying a weapon is a clear recipe for disaster.

If you wait until you need self defense weapon to try to obtain one, you've waited too long.

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Election 2008 – Addicted to Placebos

It could be an around-the-Constitution avenue to control of carrying permits. And, that would have to be watched. However, we require relatively intense training for one to operate an automobile in public. Automobiles are lethal, yet no abuse of requirements for training courses has surfaced in an attempt to make a flank attack on driving.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Perhaps that’s because there’s no real coordinated and well financed attack to prohibit people from owning and operating motor vehicles. Additionally, as has been pointed out repeatedly, there is no constitutional right to own or operate motor vehicles.

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Election 2008 – Addicted to Placebos

Right. Folks aren't as emotional about automobiles. There is no right to an automobile, too. But what about the right of the public to be secure? As there is a significant portion of the public (me) who is uneasy with any Jane or Joe among us being armed with a lethal weapon (car or gun), don't we have some right to security in this respect? I realize I am operating on feelings at this point as I don't trust all who could be armed to be rational, and these feelings are not unusual to those who would oppose any carry permit.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Kudos to you for acknowledging your objections are based mainly on personal perception and emotion. I mean that sincerely.

Unfortunately, it appears you’ve never gone thru the procedure of legally obtaining a firearm, much less a CCW. Every CCW application is accompanied by a background check, and, as far as I know, fingerprints and a photo are taken and kept on file. Do you really need to be concerned with people who would go to that much trouble and expense to do what criminals do for free? CCW holders are among the most law-abiding and safety conscious firearms owners to be found, as they know better than most what consequences await them for failing to strictly adhere to the law, and they have something to lose. A person who wants to strap on a piece and go out looking for an excuse to use it more than likely has something in his background that precludes him from obtaining a legal CCW permit in the first place. The statistics of crimes committed by otherwise lawful CCW permit holders are virtually nonexistent, so it poses no real danger to the public. Every time a CCW or Castle Doctrine bill comes up, the gun ban crowd hysterically cries it will cause the streets to run red with blood, and every time they’re wrong. The laws lower crime everywhere they are enacted. The results are always the same, violent crime rates go down.

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Election 2008 – Addicted to Placebos

The current stats of those who do carry and are responsible are impressive. And the argument that criminals likely will have manifested their ineligibility to have a permit via some other violation is convincing, on a cognitive level. Currently, one who is looking for an excuse to do harm with a gun can easily get that gun illegally. They are a great concern of mine, especially after having to drive through the warzone of Detroit six days a week for 4.5 years.

On the legal side, my concern is with those who have yet to violate the law and get that gun. My concern is with those who talk a big talk about guns and have some kind of "tough guy/gal" attitude with ownership of that gun and tend to demonstrate anger issues, too. They do nothing to further confidence in me that all should be able to carry. Matt has been trained with a good philosophy that an attitude of the tough guy/gal needs to be checked, especially when carrying.

Other than possible abuses of doing a flank attack on carry permits - I believe a real concern you raise - I am still having a hard time abandonding the need for a thorough training for that carry permit.

Actually, I do own a firearm. I purchased a shotgun last fall as I was concerned with home protection. They did check my background - some phone call somewhere to make sure I have no record. It only took about an extra half hour to 45 minutes to complete the paperwork. I did not have to go through any training on the use of this firearm, but the merchant who sold it did offer a free 45-day membership at their range. I took advantage of that (shot slugs at the range) so that the guys there could show me how to use it and I could develop more comfort using this type of shotgun. I am not pleased that I had to get a firearm, but after long deliberation, it seemed the best choice for me. And, the completely optional training I sought was a wise move for me to become a safer firearm owner. I don't know if all who do what I did would take advantage of becoming safer with their firearm, and it is not a handgun that I carry.

[edit] And, I acknowledge the fact that most violent gun crime is done with illegal weapons. If illegal weapons are more targeted than legal weapons, gun crime rates would fall. I don't get why the current laws are not enforced as much as they seem they could be. That may be a good place to start to alleviate emotional concerns about some blood bath with applying more public respect for the 2nd Amendment. [/edit]

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

That's the whole problem. You need to take a written and physical test to get a license to drive a car.

What do you need to do to get a gun license? Fill out some forms?

Having a gun should require strict training and testing as well as intense scrutiny of the person's background and mental health.

IMHO.

Why? Driving a car isn't a constitutional right but owning a gun is. Or do you want to change the Constitution now?

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

I suspect this may be one of those rare times when you and I will see eye-to-eye on an issue, Sam.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Don't you love it when that happens?

Not particularly - it rather frightens me. And I mean no offense whatsoever - really - just having a chuckle with you.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

That's an outstanding point.

I went through the steps to be properly licensed to carry a concealed weapon. In all the times I carried a concealed sidearm (which was almost every day for over three years), I drew it, and used it, only once. It wasn't while I was on my way to make a night deposit, but rather while my wife and I were walking down the street from a movie theatre. If I didn't have it, I have no doubt we'd have been killed.

It takes a profound level of retardation for someone to believe that further restrictions on owning or carrying a weapon is going to suddenly clean up the streets. The only people that's going to have an adverse effect on are people who would've, otherwise, been able to protect themselves...

LOL! Nice use of insults. Shows rational thinking. /sarcasm

IMHO people who can't post without calling those of us who'd like the same care in licensing drivers taken when licensing gun owners, retarded, probably don't have the temperament needed for carrying a gun.

Further restrictions on gun ownership will keep us all safer. When a mentally ill guy is able to buy a gun, over the counter one day and then go shoot up Virginia Tech another, there's a big problem in the gun licensing laws.

Further gun restrictions won't keep us all safer, contrary to what you believe. Think about it, Sam, if criminals are going to break the law, making new laws will just give them more laws to break. Gun restrictions only work on the honest folks and making us jump through even more hoops IS retarded.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"