http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/nyregion/26taser.html

The New York Times article was written better, but the pictures and videos are on the New York Post site:

NEW YORK COPS TASER NUDE BROOKLYN MAN - New York Post

Why are Police Officers allowed to have tasers? Somehow I doubt a naked man poking an Officer with a fluorescent lightbulb is sufficient reason for use of deadly force, but the Lieutenant decides on the spot it is sufficient reason to tase a man off a ten foot high ledge? What is the outcome without a taser? The guy falls on his own and dies, falls into a net when it comes and is arrested or tires out and is led down and arrested. The outcome with a taser? Death, and two Police Officers punished.

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Clearly a poor application of the Taser. Doesn't mean the Taser itself is a poor tool for the right circumstances.

Matt

Since when is using a taser considered deadly force? IMO, the cops are in the right here.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

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Pushing isn't lethal force either. Pushing someone to the ground on the street doesn't kill them, but pushing them out of a thirty story window probably would.

I agree with Matt, improper use.

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Except he was 10ft off the ground.

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

Which, in an uncontrolled fall onto a hard surface, has a very high probability of death or serious injury.

Matt

Clearly a poor application, yes. But I think the ability to use a non-lethal weapon clouds judgment. I doubt either the Lieutenant that made the order or Officer that used the taser thought their actions could lead to the man's death, but it did. Had the Lieutenant ordered the man to be shot, no one would have followed the order. He wasn't posing that big of a risk to anyone but himself. And had they simply shot the man, neither Officer would have been administratively reassigned; neither of them would ever be Police Officers again. But the end result was the same... the man is dead.
I can't say what either of the two men were thinking, but they certainly did not hesitate to hit him with the taser.

__________________
There is no secret ingredient.

Probably should have thought twice about swinging that thing at the cops then, huh? Forget the whole being naked and obviously off his fucking rocker, and yelling that all the cops were going to die.

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

A fluorescent lightbulb. And the order to tase the man was given after he poked a Police Officer who was obviously close enough to be poked by a fluorescent lightbulb. No Police Officer in range, no poke, no tase, no dead man. No taser, no tase, no dead man by Police hands. The only danger he posed was to himself.

__________________
There is no secret ingredient.

Right, and the police had a responsibility to protect him from himself. Couldn't really do that without getting him down, could they?

It was a shitty situation for those cops to be in, to be sure. Really don't see what they could have done differently, and I can't bring myself to feel sorry for this douche.

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

I don't feel sorry for the guy either. But there are two things they could have done: let the guy fall on his own, or let the guy fall on something to catch him. His death or not, there is no fault to the Police Department. Now two Police Officers are directly responsible for his death, regardless of how screwed up the guy was, regardless of how likely he was to kill himself anyway.

__________________
There is no secret ingredient.

The taser is not deadly force, however, using it in these circumstances equated to deadly force. The ( one of the ) definition of deadly force is:

Deadly force is that force which is used for the purpose of causing, or which is known or should be known, to cause death, substantial risk of death, or serious bodily harm. Deadly force will be used only as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed, or cannot reasonably be employed.

One, the cops should have known that tasering someone standing on a high ledge could have caused the guy to fall, which could have resulted in death or serious bodily harm.

Two, they did not apply all lesser meanss, or even attempt to use them, before tasering him while he was standing on the high ledge. ( now, in the definition it says "or CANNOT be reasonable employed". In this case, there were no mitigating circumstances that did not allow for employing lesser means

In this instance, the police officers did indeed mis-use force, including deadly force, and caused the mans death. I feel they should be charged and held accountable for their actions.

Which id high enough to kill you. There is a reason OSHA demands handgrips and anti-fall devices for structures over 36 inches.

A flourscent light bulb ain't much in the deadly weapon category. It's called using judgement.

The cops should have backed off, isolated the area, and waited him out. If he jumped, so be it.