Back in the day, about 30 years ago, I was a serious pot head. I smoked pot in the morning at lunch and in the evening. I worked 10 hour days 6 days a week. I was never late, I never took days off sick (I never got sick enough to miss work). Being high on pot was my normal state. If I did not have pot I could function, but I was not as efficient or as fast as when I was high on pot. Let me rephrase that....Once pot became my state of normalcy, it was when I did not have any pot that people (who were unaware of my pot use) might ask "are you feeling alright today?" or "you don't seem your usual self". So, when I hear you all discussing things like Let me inform you, that is not how it works.
I'm not surprised that you would come to that conclusion. When your not used to smoking pot, or better yet, if you have not built up a tolerance to smoking pot, it can and usually does make you fairly absent minded. But once you have gotten used to it, you get absent minded without it.

It's been 25 years since I was a pot head. And, now, If I take one hit of the cultured, incredibly strong pot that they have today, I get just as stupid as the next guy.


As far as your questions about hash, I can shed some light on the subject.
Anytime you have a black market in an illegal substance, dealers will try and find a way to maximize profits by diluting (cutting) their product. In Europe, it is far easier to find hash then pot. So, you will find a lot of "cut" hash. And, they will cut it with whatever they can find that resembles hash, as long as it adds weight. Stateside, there was a time when there was a lot of "hash oil" on the street and it was always cut with motor oil because it looked like motor oil. I never liked it because of that fact. I did have a great connection for Lebanese hash that came in flat 1/8th" thick chunks that had a dragon stamped on it, which made it impossible to cut. At the low inflationary price of $3.00 a gram it was quite a deal by today's standards.

I saw something interesting concerning hash oil the other day. If your interested go to google videos and type in "Rick Simpson".

an 8th an ounce of hash nowadays sells for 30 bucks a gram, if youre lucky. an 8th is 3.5 grams. I'm building a time machine.

The definition of addiction.

__________________
January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

No, that is not the definition of addiction. Not even close.

No, it's not the definition. It is just the way it was for me. Results will differ from person to person.

I'll give it my two cents...

I don't think pot is a horrible or super dangerous drug (like some other kind of drug), but it still does impair judgment and reaction time. This can cause any number of problems such as DUI caused deaths or being unable to keep a job. I'm not saying that all people who smoke mary jay has these problems, but I'm sure some are more susceptible than others. Like someone said, "results may vary". It also has tons of poisons in them which will cause health problems later down the road. Now I will make an assertion that if you don't agree with than my whole basis is invalidated.

Most people are generally law abiding.

If you legalize another substance that is known to impair judgement and cause health problems then the number of people doing it and doing it openly will increase. I think the fact that it's illegal keeps those who do it now from being as irresponsible with it as they possibly could if it wasn't illegal.

Why would you want another vice that has a lot of negative effects to become more widespread? I refute that mj is as pervasive as some people believe. I think a certain amount experiment with it (I myself have) but then move on. I realize we do have other drugs that cause problems as well (eg alcohol, cigarettes). We did try to get rid of alcohol in the past but it was already ingrained too much in our society thereby making it virtually impossible to stop it. It's much harder to take away a right or privilege that someone has had instead of keeping one away that never was (at least for a few generations).

Now lets look at some negatives from the legal ones. Alcohol: Can kill you if you drink too much at one time or over time. Has been the direct cause of many innocents being killed in car accidents. Has caused many family break ups and abuse etc. Cigarettes: is linked to many diseases and lung cancer. Has been linked to causing these problems to nonsmokers via 2nd hand smoke. Causes a huge drain on our medical system and increases health insurance costs for everyone else to with long, expensive, and repeated treatments.

I will admit that alcohol, imo, is more damaging than mj is. I mean, I drink on occasion, if your child is killed by a drunk driver would you really give a damn about that person's right to drink? Or, if you were the cause of someone else's death as a drunk driver. Could a conscionable person go back to drinking again? I don't think the act of using it is evil or bad in itself, but just the possible results.

So I am for keeping it illegal based on the premise that it keeps consumption lower than what it could be. This is my case.

P.S. If I could change the legality and stigma of mj and alcohol I would wave a magic wand and do it.

Part of the reason why drugs are dangerous is because they are illegal. It moves the business into the hands of organized criminals, reducing drug quality. That is why, during Prohibition, we had bathtub gin which caused blindness, not to mention a shitload of organized crime.You mean like cigarettes and fast food?Saying that most people are law-abiding is problematic because it really depends on the laws. Some laws are totally pointless and nearly unenforceable, like marijuana bans, so people don't give a fuck.

Marijuana - InfoFacts - NIDA

Once you get to 12th grade, it reaches nearly 50%. And that's for 12th graders! People under 20! I'm guessing the numbers hit well above 50% once you get to the higher age groups.Why do you assume that? If you get stoned and kill someone with a car, you're fucked. If you get drunk and kill someone with a car, you're also fucked.Where has anyone given that as a reason to legalize? I think people want to legalize it because of one thing: personal liberty. You know, that little thing you don't give a fuck about. But hey, let's apply your standards to other vices. Why would we want obesity and the associated diseases that tend to come with fast food? Should we ban fast food? What about alcohol and tobacco? Why aren't we banning that? I'll tell you why we shouldn't: because it's none of your fucking business what some stranger smokes or drinks or eats. And if he wants to die of a heart attack at 50, it's his fucking business, not your's.THE SAME SHIT IS HAPPENING WITH OUR ILLEGAL DRUGS! Did you happen to miss the gang activity associated with illicit drugs? How about the pervasiveness (despite your no-evidence "refutation") of marijuana?Hint: they can't take away Americans' marijuana, either. It doesn't matter what the paper says when people smoke it, anyway.And people like you would see us make the illegal drugs more damaging by moving production into the hands of criminals who mix it with shit to increase the weight.I don't have a child, and it doesn't matter what I would say if it changes my opinion, because it would then be based on emotion and not reason.I dunno. Could a sober driver go back to being sober again? Or driving?Of course. Same for eating in the car, playing with the radio, etc... You're not going to put your thumb on "the problem" because there is no such thing. Shit happens and that's the end of it. Going puritan isn't going to stop it. It's just going to piss off a lot of people and get a lot of dudes killed because they happen to like heroin instead of alcohol.And I think we should keep consumption of caffeine, soda, fast food, salt, red meat, etc... down by making it illegal. Wouldn't want another vice out there.

Slon,

You basically interpreted what you wanted out of my statements and outright dodged others. Also you hostile attitude was completely counter productive to your argument. The post is for people to state why it should be illegal, I gave my reasons, and you got your nickers in a bunch. Maybe you should go smoke a bowl and unwind before you post again.

1. You dodged the fact that it doesn't matter if mj has other harmful substances in them due to it being on the black market. It will still impair people and still cloud judgement. No one is making you smoke it. That is your choice.
2. How do cigarettes and fast food cause DUIs or make people lose their jobs?
3. My stance does not move it into the hands of criminals. It's there already. If we would actually crack down on it like we should then even their abilities would be limited to a vast degree. We are only halfassed fighting it.
4. A lot of people experiment with it, I said I did myself, but I think the vast majority of people mature and grow out of it.
5. They can take your mj away, they just have to catch you first. And you also didn't read properly because I said "right" aka privilege. So yes, they can take that privilege away. You can still choose to break the law though. Aka be a criminal.
6. It is emotional if you lost someone...but that doesn't take away from the rational. If you really wanted to be completely rational you wouldn't do any of those things at all, excepting for health benefits. You choice to do those things is the only irrational decision. Trying to protect the lives of people is not irrational.

Your attempts at rationalizing the negative drawbacks to mj is are pretty weak. Most of what you typed are deflections and do not refute what I posted. Fast food, caffeine, salt, red meat are not comparable at all. Those examples are just silly and makes your argument weaker.

This FORUM is for political discussion. Only a fool would post in a thread like this and expect nobody to challenge his points.Try again. I don't smoke MJ.Where have I dodged anything? I simply pointed out that being on the black market makes it more dangerous.

Read:

"Part of the reason why drugs are dangerous is because they are illegal."Read, dude:

Your last statement in that quote segment is:
"It also has tons of poisons in them which will cause health problems later down the road."

I replied:
"You mean like cigarettes and fast food?"

Both of those substance have tendencies to cause "problems later down the road."Of course it moves it into the hands of criminals. That's what making it illegal does. This is what happened during Prohibition and it is what is happening now. You won't be able to fight it because it's human nature to use drugs. There's nothing inherently unjust in it and use, in and of itself, is victimless.It's still very pervasive, even if most "grow out of it," which you still haven't proven.And I said it doesn't matter what your right technically is as far as human nature regarding use is concerned. If people know they can get away with it (and generally they can), they'll use it despite the laws. Point is, it IS ingrained in our society because enforcement is bullshit and people DO use it.No, but you don't need to lose someone to know that you theoretically can. Thus, if you change your opinion based on the incident, it is because you have chosen emotion over reason.That's not true. Pleasure can be a rational pursuit. We all know we will die one day, so why not have fun? If we take your "fun = irrational" reasoning further, everyone would only eat health foods, exercise all day and live like hermits to avoid disease.But that's not what you're doing. You're putting people in prison for getting high, you're breeding organized crime that kills people, you're making drugs more dangerous, etc... Why aren't they comparable? Let's look at the facts:

FASTSTATS - Deaths and Mortality

Heart disease: 631,636

#1

Obesity is a major factor in heart disease. Why don't you want to ban unhealthy foods? You claim you want to protect people's lives.

The thing is, I'm not trying to refute much of what you posted because I agree with some of it. Many drugs are dangerous. But it's none of your business if your neighbor gets high on coke, just like it's none of his business if you smoke MJ.

And imagine what the health facts would be if as many people used MJ starting at the same age and to the same degree fast food is eaten. Also, at least fast food can sustain your body I could live for a very long time eating every meal at McD's (even though that would be unhealthy) how long would you last if all you did was smoke? I don't mind anyone challenging me on my points, you were just irrational and overly emotional about it. I gotta go for now, I liked the tenor of your second post better (if that matters).

If you don't like MJ, don't use it. Let others live their lives as they wish. Why are you so overbearing?Both are still damaging to your health, dude. To varying extents. Why don't you want to ban fast food and get those McD's to convert to healthy food sellers?Where am I being irrational?

What is so irrational about supporting liberty and letting people live their personal lives as they wish? You've already misrepresented what I said in the past, so how is it me that is being irrational?

As someone directly involved in that very thing, may I politely suggest that if that's what you really think, you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about.

TG3,

Really? You are getting the drug lords where they are? How much are we supporting the Mexican President's recent attempts to actually fight against the drug lords? Are our penalties stiff enough for drug dealers? I hear from my buddy about how these people get out of jail in no time, constantly. I've ridden with him as well. Ah...but I bet inner city Baltimore isn't hardcore enough for you. That city is super clean. The number of police that are actually patrolling is sufficient too, I suppose.

Don't speak about someone knowing "zero" until you know for sure your assumption is correct.

You're conflating drug lords and low level street dealers.

This has nothing to do with 'hardcore' anything. It has to do with you making a ridiculous claim that we're fighting the WOD in a half-assed manner. I don't have to assume anything; I know that someone who would hold that opinion is clueless as to what we're actually doing.Perhaps if you knew the difference between marijuana and crack and heroin, which are the main problems for Balimore, you'd have a point, since we're talking specifically about MJ.

Come to LA, and maybe you could ride along with me and you could tell me how hardcore you are, hardcore guy.

Of course I'm conflating those two. They are tied together. I realize what drugs are a problem in Baltimore but that does not speak to the halfassed effort on our behalf. Since mj is a a drug and so is heroin and they are all part of the WOD. I would love to go on a ride along with you. You are probably more exposed to life and death situations than I was in the sandbox for a year. Anyways, I do put the drug lords together with the end suppliers/sellers. You have to stop them at the source. The same thing happened with Vietnam. We fought a defensive war instead of striking at the heart. Politics does tend to get in the way of doing what is most effective. Let me ask you this...do you have enough personnel to cover everything you need to? I have yet to see any city state that they have sufficient numbers. The only thing I ever see is that they don't have the funding to hire and equip the proper amount. Anyways, there are plenty of more things we could do to stop drugs.