Have you not read a single post ive written? I'm for pot. Just not for meth coke or heroin.

Why does it matter where these things are made or by whom? Right now, alcohol is made locally and very difficult for children to get. Cocaine and heroin are (generally) made on other continents and school children can get them without issue.

As for stiffer penalties, are you suggesting that this hasn't been tried? Recreational users of cocaine or heroin are already looking at exorbitant jail sentences and it has not mattered one iota. Use has continued unchecked while we put an incredible strain on the penal system and budgets propping up failed policy. Do you really think that raising the penalty for possessing a pocket full of powder from 10 years in federal prison to 15 years is going to matter?

And why does border control matter? If you cut off the land routes, they'll come in by sea. Cut off the sea routes and they'll come in via air. Cut off all of that, lock down the country, and the growth and manufacture here will skyrocket. The supply is driven by the demand, not the other way around. Prohibition tries to remove the supply. It has always failed. It will always fail. And, it will also make things worse (without prohibition, the meth of which you speak would never have existed).

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

It won't matter vis a vis marijuana. Marijuana is already culturally and socially acceptable. It's just a question of waiting for the status-quo preservers in office to catch up. I don't know that you'll see the kind of legality that you might want, but decriminalization is a forgone conclusion.

The other drugs and people "lumping it in" is irrelevant. And, besides, arguing from the Machiavellian point of view of sacrificing what makes sense so that you can get high without worrying is rather unseemly.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Good luck growing the fields and fields and fields of plants that it takes to produce the amounts of coke and heroin that the US consumes. Theres a reason people don't make it HERE. Its too easily spotted.

You may think what you want and argue as logically as you like. Doesn't mean youre wrong. However youll never get it passed through congress. Pot by itself has a chance of getting through congress. Its going to have to be gradual if its going to happen at all. First Pot. Then Coke. Then acid, exstasy and shrooms. Then Heroin and meth. My opinion nothing more.

Manipulating public thought is quite Machiavellian. Besides, Machiavelli while true in most cases does not always work. Mack himself died with absolutely zero power. His book the Prince and his diatribes on the history of the roman republic, both got him pretty much nothing in his lifetime. He remained out of favor with Lorenzo DeMedici and forbidden from holding office in Florence for the remainder of his sad miserable life. His ideal prince cesare Borgia failed as well and never truly achieved power. The Prince is more like a book of guidelines than absolute principles. (note i think this and i'm actually quite a fan. Smart dude really.)

No, the reason that people don't grow it here is that the risk is not worth the reward. If you choke off other sources, however, demand increases, driving prices up, and the risk becomes worth the reward. If I told you that you could make $5000 per year growing opium poppies in your basement, you'd probably be disinclined to try. If I told you that you could make 5 million per year doing it, you might give it a look-see.

I don't really think things like that tend to happen gradually. Prohibition wasn't implemented in particularly gradual fashion, but reactionary fashion instead. I'd imagine that you'll see it happen in fits and starts. People mostly like the status quo. If someone came along explaining that legalizing narcotics could probably payoff Obama's big bailout, people might start giving the issue some consideration (even if they continue to hold the misguided belief that legalizing said narcotics would be some kind of calamity). Consider, for instance, that polled voters in an economic downturn admitted that worrying about issues like abortion or homosexual marriage were "luxuries" that they couldn't afford. I'd imagine that they'd see prohibition the same way (in fact, this was a big motivation for repealing alcohol prohibition - that and the organized crime and ineffectiveness).

Um, okay. But, the colloquial adjective "Machiavellian" describes the sentiment of his ideas for governance rather than being intended to construe that someone lived in similar conditions to Machiavelli himself. That is, I'm not under the impression that you're a 14th century Italian philosopher.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

And why not? Why is it NOT your business if people get high on alcohol (and possibly mow down a pedestrian or two), smoke tobacco and die from cancer, or smoke MJ and pull some kind of an incredible stunt from some lame anti-drug commercial, but it suddenly becomes your business if they get high on heroin and pass out for a few hours?

Well, I agree that people aren't ready for legalization of all drugs, but it is time to start discussing it. Most people who argue against drug legalization don't even know how many people die from drug overdose per year. Of course, there are no good statistics, only estimates. Still, these numbers are small when compared to many, many other dangers in the world and especially small when compared to annual deaths caused by alcohol and tobacco.

Would you agree that alcohol causes more pain and suffering than all illegal drugs combined? If you take time to really think about it. All the DUIs, all the wife abuse, child abuse, fights, crime and it's long term effects make alcohol the worst drug for people around the user.

One of the best quotes I have read on this topic is from a book, "America's Longest War"........

"If the reason to make some drugs illegal is to keep people from harming themselves and others, then it is clear, the wrong drugs are illegal."

Heroin is an excellent pain killer and meth keeps our wheels of commerce and fighter pilots awake. Do you think that everyone who has done heroin or speed becomes raging junkies? No, most people who use those drugs do not become junkies.. And just how many people do you know that have done Meth and heroin. Did they have psychological problems from taking the drugs, or were they taking drugs BECAUSE they had psychological problems? I cannot believe that you just tried to make a point that alcoholics do not have health and/or head problems... Pot, yes...Booze, no...And I believe that your mistaking Heroin with Crack, X, and GHB.

Yes, your a great humanitarian. And you don't need to seperate things that aren't connected. Just need to undo decades of conditioned response's.

massive, unadulterated ignorance. try again next time

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Just saying, you can be as machiavellian as you want, but that doesn't mean its going to work for you. Which was WHY i used the examples of Machiavelli himself and his ideal example which he gives in the Prince, of Cesare Borgia. If you want to talk about his ideas of governence etc then you must realize that not everyone is suited to hold power. He thought a select few people could really do it. He also lusted for power like i lust for that cute blonde i met in science lab. Yet he had none, even with his Principles of Governence etc. A conundrum wouldn't you agree?
Perhaps he didn't know everything.

I just want pot seperated from "hard drugs" so it can get legalized. That is my only concern.

PS: lame anti drug commercials are bs. Ive been really ripped before but ive never been that ripped. (seen the one where the girl "doesn't remember" that she slutted out? o cmon. pot won't make you black out.)

Problem is we don't have a lot of statistics on heroin use. or meth. or crack. But ive been around those users and i know what happens. All ive got is my own experience to go on. Ive never met a responsible meth user. or heroin user. or crack head. i have met responsible drinkers and smokers.

Great lets give our fighter pilots meth. (which we don't do for a reason you know. there are other things that are alot less harmful than meth that do the same things.) Heroin is a shitty painkiller. Morphine is better and cleaner.

Ive met quite a few. Been around the block more than once.

O so youve never seen a women sell her body for money or dope? Where have you been?

Seperate things,,, undo conditioned responses.. 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

Well, on this one particular point, I will agree.

I don't know any heroin users, never have, but I have never met anyone who could manage a crack habit. I have met a few who could manage Meth use, but I don't know many of them, so my sample size is very small.

Still, I do not now a single person who has died from heroin, meth, or crack. I do not know anyone who was killed by someone on meth, crack, or heroin. As to alcohol, I know over a dozen people who have died in DUI related accidents.

Alcohol causes more pain and suffering than ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS COMBINED.

Some will argue this is because so many more people use alcohol, when compared to hard drugs, which is true, but alcohol causes violent tendencies in many, many people. How many bar fights have you seen in your life? I have seen well over 100 bar fights and many ended up with someone going to the hospital.

Even with the dangers from Meth, Heroin and Crack, prohibition has not stopped and has barely even slowed the availability of these drugs. All prohibition has done is make these drugs even MORE DANGEROUS, because of impurities and different potency levels. Many overdoses are because of prohibition.

Do me a favor, search once on these keywords.........

"deaths from bad heroin"