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  #256 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,817

   
Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
i'm not really sure what your point is. a poster made the claim that dexedrine and crystal meth are essentially the same drug. you said they aren't, and i gave you reasons why they are.

They are similar. However the points of their use are different. Dexadrine (and amphetimine/adderal/ritalin) can be used effectively to treat certain medical conditions/psychological conditions/keep pilots awake on international flights. Crystal meth is exclusively used to get tweaked the fuck out. Its made out of some seriously nasty shit thats seriously detrimental to your health. Its useless medically. We already have a safer alternative to use (dexadrine etc.). Thats my point.
  #257 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,044

Earth     United_States

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by reality View Post
They are similar. However the points of their use are different. Dexadrine (and amphetimine/adderal/ritalin) can be used effectively to treat certain medical conditions/psychological conditions/keep pilots awake on international flights. Crystal meth is exclusively used to get tweaked the fuck out. Its made out of some seriously nasty shit thats seriously detrimental to your health. Its useless medically. We already have a safer alternative to use (dexadrine etc.). Thats my point.
how do you know crystal meth could not be used for the same purpose? the main reason most illegal drugs are dangerous is because they are illegal. there's nasty shit in it because it's unregulated and people who make it can put whatever the fuck they want into it. if unregulated, dexedrine would probably be just as dangerous as any other controlled stimulant. that's MY point.

honestly dexedrine is a terrible example for you to try to make this point. it is highly addictive and its users are often subject to dependence. it's also not particularly good for the body.
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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
  #258 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,817

   
Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
how do you know crystal meth could not be used for the same purpose? the main reason most illegal drugs are dangerous is because they are illegal. there's nasty shit in it because it's unregulated and people who make it can put whatever the fuck they want into it. if unregulated, dexedrine would probably be just as dangerous as any other controlled stimulant. that's MY point.

honestly dexedrine is a terrible example for you to try to make this point. it is highly addictive and its users are often subject to dependence. it's also not particularly good for the body.
Crystal meth is made out of brake fluid and cold pills among other things. Have you ever actually SEEN a tweaker? Honestly man crystal meth has no redeeming qualities.
heres a little info

Methamphetamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Methamphetamine addiction typically occurs when a person begins to use it because of its powerful enhancing effects on mood and energy, weight loss and appetite suppression, among its other psychological and physical effects.[citation needed] Over time effectiveness decreases, and users find that they need to take higher doses to get the same results and have far greater difficulty functioning and experiencing pleasure than they did before, which unlike cocaine persists indefinitely due to neurotoxicity produced by methamphetamine in long-term recovered addicts. Many users report having become an addict from their first "shot", or just one intravenous injection of crystal methamphetamine, marking its high affinity for a spiral of debilitating addiction.[citation needed] Methamphetamine's predominance as an addictive drug was the motivation behind several anti-drug advertisements and slogans.

Medical use
Main article: Dextromethamphetamine (medical)
Dextromethamphetamine is used medically under the brand name Desoxyn for the following conditions:

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder[40];
Extreme obesity;
Narcolepsy

10 mg DesoxynBecause of its social stigma and toxicity, dextromethamphetamine is not generally prescribed for ADHD unless other stimulants, such as methylphenidate, dextroamphetamine, lisdexamphetamine or other stimulant drug treatments have failed.[citation needed]


[edit] Other uses
A new study by a group of University of Montana scientists showed that methamphetamine appears to lessen damage to the brains of rats and gerbils that have suffered strokes. The researchers found that small amounts of methamphetamine created a protective effect, while higher doses increased damage. The work is preliminary, and more research is needed to confirm and expand the findings; however, U.M. research assistant professor Dave Poulsen said someday humans may use methamphetamine to lessen stroke damage.[41]



Now heres dexadrin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrom...amine_(medical)

As you can see they are different. And both are rather dangerous. Dexadrin is hardly ever prescribed. Why would we need to legalize crystal meth when we've already got the safer isomer, dexadrin?
  #259 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,044

Earth     United_States

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

^we need to decriminalize it because the cons associated with prohibition are far outweighed by the pros of decriminalization. We need to decriminalize it because in every case where prohibition laws have been eased, drug abuse has declined (see the Netherlands, Portugal). No one here is arguing that crystal meth is good for you, we're arguing that it's illegality causes a much larger problem than the drug itself. People with drug addictions should be treated as medical patients not criminals. The way it is now, the punishment for taking the drug is more harmful than taking the drug itself and only exacerbates the problem. How does that make any sense?
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  #260 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,817

   
Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
^we need to decriminalize it because the cons associated with prohibition are far outweighed by the pros of decriminalization. We need to decriminalize it because in every case where prohibition laws have been eased, drug abuse has declined (see the Netherlands, Portugal). No one here is arguing that crystal meth is good for you, we're arguing that it's illegality causes a much larger problem than the drug itself. People with drug addictions should be treated as medical patients not criminals. The way it is now, the punishment for taking the drug is more harmful than taking the drug itself and only exacerbates the problem. How does that make any sense?
It doesn't, but since when has american government made sense? Youre not going to be able to push all this through at once. It doesn't matter how right you are, normal people won't accept it. You need those normal people to accept it to get the law passed. You need them to accept it in an overwhelming majority. You don't have that now. Nor are you anywhere close.

Pot by itself, is almost there at the finish line/top of the mountain. Its going to be a gradual process, just like prohibition was. It doesn't have to make sense, because fear is involved. Fear turns humans into irrational creatures. You have to get them used to it slowly.

If it was only a matter of making sense alot of things in this world would be better. But its not.
  #261 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,044

Earth     United_States

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

so your argument is that even though legalizing/decriminalizing drugs makes sense, we still shouldn't support it.

okay, point taken. debate over.
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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
  #262 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,817

   
Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
so your argument is that even though legalizing/decriminalizing drugs makes sense, we still shouldn't support it.

okay, point taken. debate over.
No, i'm saying you shouldn't try to ram it all in at once. Read the posts.

Im saying that it doesn't matter if it makes sense, it matters if you can get enough popular support for it. If you can't do that, all youre doing is pissing in the wind.

It has to be a slow, inexorable change. Gradual. Like how the ocean erodes a cliff.

Or like how prohibition started in the first place.
  #263 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,044

Earth     United_States

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

whatever man...i think you're just arguing for the sake of argument and not really trying to put forth any meaningful points at all.
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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
  #264 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,623

United_States     Ohio

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by reality View Post
No, i'm saying you shouldn't try to ram it all in at once. Read the posts.

Im saying that it doesn't matter if it makes sense, it matters if you can get enough popular support for it. If you can't do that, all youre doing is pissing in the wind.

It has to be a slow, inexorable change. Gradual. Like how the ocean erodes a cliff.

Or like how prohibition started in the first place.

Or like how the Dems are trying to turn this country into a communist state. Little by little, one day at a time.
  #265 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,044

Earth     United_States

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
Or like how the Dems are trying to turn this country into a communist state. Little by little, one day at a time.
lol this is easily the most blatantly irrelevant post i've seen since i started posting here.
__________________
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
  #266 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,623

United_States     Ohio

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
lol this is easily the most blatantly irrelevant post i've seen since i started posting here.
It goes hand in hand with the political strategy to accomplish drug legalization.

Little by little, one day at a time. I was just giving a current day example of this.
  #267 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
President

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 18,069

United_States     Russian

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by htperr6565 View Post
how is that not liberty?
Liberty is the idea that people should be able to smoke/drink whatever they want. See: choice. ONLY legalizing MJ so that one person can get high suggests a personal agenda other than the idea of liberty.
  #268 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,817

   
Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
Or like how the Dems are trying to turn this country into a communist state. Little by little, one day at a time.
Exactly. if it works for them it can work for us.
  #269 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,817

   
Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
whatever man...i think you're just arguing for the sake of argument and not really trying to put forth any meaningful points at all.
or i'm being realistic about how its actually able to be accomplished instead of being a head in the clouds idealist that thinks it should be that way because it doesn't make sense. When alot of things our government does and alot of things people in general do make absolutely no sense. Youre trying to apply pure reason to a human being, which is pretty far from being an entity of pure reason in the best of circumstances.

It doesn't make sense. Ok. No if only you could convince the majority of the population of that fact. Perhaps you could start with a fairly innocuous drug that anti-drug people paint as hell incarnante and get it legalized and mainstreamed as ok. then you could gradually move up the ladder.
  #270 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009
President

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 18,069

United_States     Russian

Re: Make an argument as to why marijuana should be illegal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by reality View Post
or i'm being realistic about how its actually able to be accomplished instead of being a head in the clouds idealist that thinks it should be that way because it doesn't make sense. When alot of things our government does and alot of things people in general do make absolutely no sense. Youre trying to apply pure reason to a human being, which is pretty far from being an entity of pure reason in the best of circumstances.

It doesn't make sense. Ok. No if only you could convince the majority of the population of that fact. Perhaps you could start with a fairly innocuous drug that anti-drug people paint as hell incarnante and get it legalized and mainstreamed as ok. then you could gradually move up the ladder.
Being a realist, our government lies just enough to get 51% of the vote, then tells us to go fuck ourselves while it pays off the pals that helped it get elected and only legalizes things when it will be beneficial to cronies and/or getting a few percentage points of popularity prior to election (that is, assuming that lying about it won't accomplish the same). Obama is probably an extreme case of this. That doesn't mean I'm going to forget what I believe is right.
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