Thanks, but I wouldn't say I've completely behaved myself. I've let a few off-the-cuff comments fly

Well...not just the cheaper prisons but also forcing all prisoners to work would save the state more money which they could use to put into more police or figure out a better way to catch the criminals.

Didn't ignore, I'm just outnumber, remember? I did address that stuff in an earlier post.

I wouldn't mind if we did, I can do w/o.

Yep, I tried it once in HS as well. I had no intention of continuing with it. But I did break the law then.

We may not be able to stop it completely but we could put a huge dent in it. We just have the short sighted vision to only go after the small-time end dealers and the users. If we should execute the drug lords living in the mansions in other countries it would have a huge ripple effect. Anytime someone rose to prominence we would take them out too. Then they'd be almost as busy fighting each other to be the next one in charge.

Logic would be to not use mind-altering substances. And obey the law. It's a societal problem almost more than anything else.

From an expediency standpoint, that might make sense. It would probably reduce US drug use very slightly for a little while. But, do you really think that the foreign policy fallout from empire-like, belligerent behavior is worth the domestic goal of controlling people's lives and choices via the nanny state? I mean, think about this. You're proposing that the US send forces into other countries to assassinate civilians and cripple a cash export of those countries in the hopes that doing so will marginally alleviate a domestic US problem completely of US creation (via the demand for narcotics).

That wouldn't be much different, in principle, from me murdering other people's children in my town because I found out my son had been smoking reefer behind the school with them, and when I grounded him, it didn't work.

__________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

not sure what planet you live on, but here in the USA, Earth, your punishment increases with the amount of drugs you have. and trafficking punishment is more severe than anything else.

you have employed a false dichotomy. there are either small end dealers and users, and foreign drug lords. what is it that you have against reality?

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I think it was about not becoming an evil communist empire that can control every aspect of an individual's life, merely for the sake of drug control.

Maybe some folks, when giving what they think are fool proof arguments, are too quick to say "I'm Done!" When someone says that marijuana does not make people be out of control, they are just plain lying. In any life or death situation, the pot smoker is going to stand there and stare instead of doing what needs to be done. I have experienced this myself, years ago when I worked on an emergency unit. Letting someone be harmed because you were dazed and confused is just as bad as injuring someone, in my books.
If pot is just for a little recreation, why has it quadrupled in strength over the past few years? Try studying a little history. Find out why China went to war with England in something called the "Opium Wars." You can scream "legalize" all you want, the reason was because it was dumbing down their population.
What is a farmer going to grow, if pot becomes legal? And if you think the taxes off of pot are going to make us rich, read about how the bootlegger Bronfmans got filthy rich after alcohol was made legal. By the way, barley can be eaten by cows, corn can be eaten by pigs and cows, potatoes can be eaten by us, but pot's only purpose is to be smoked! That is the kind that ropes aren't made with. Even though we have a boozer problem here, alcohol is consumed in other countries without so much problems. I don't drink or smoke, anything, so I'm not defending drinking, but pot dishes out a much larger problem than just a bunch of dull folks wanting to smoke it. If you want a harsh reference to the same kind of comparison with pot, look at the crime rate in Amsterdam.
Here is a question. When, where, and how, did we the United States of America, EVER, have a war on drugs? There has never been a banker locked up for laundering drug money in this country. Even when they plead guilty! Want times and dates?
You can bitch about big 'gummit' all you want, but the blame comes right back to the American People. There is no way, that those several hundred people on the hill, can do anything at all without our permission. You put several thousand people anywhere, and you will see action. We would rather bitch than get up off of our lazy asses and work hard to make change. Some people refuse to do it because they might just have to do a little studying. OMG!

I'm not really up for reading all 25 pages of this argument at 1.30am (time difference for the UK), but I thought I'd have my say.

Criminalisation of marijuana is unconstitutional under the 9th amendment and the 21st amendment (if you liquidise it!). And a federal ban is unconstitutional under the 10th amendment anyway.

__________________
Alexander J. Ryland

London, England
Aberdeen, Scotland

My Blog: http://alampofliberty.blogpost.com/

"The time is always right to do the right thing" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

It's a 1949 Buick Roadmaster.
Straight 8. Fireball 8. Only 8,985 production models. Dad lets me drive slow on the driveway. But not on Monday, definitely not on Monday.

Part of the issue, in my opinion, is that there are no religious morals test for public office. Therefore, there are no true witness bearing tests for politicians claiming morals concerning any laws pursuant to our Constitution.

Thus, one explanation why any good fallacy will work for the general warfare and common offense, but no reason is good enough for the general Welfare of the United States.

Are you really serious? How the hell are you getting pot rights out of this? Are you going to say coca paste is protected in the same respect? Should we apply plastic explosives rights here too? LSD can be a liquid. Lets just make heroin mandatory with breakfast cereal. Who is going to vote? What kind of a future are we advocating here? Murder seems to be a little tough to handle nowadays, perhaps we should make it legal.
How come nobody ever, ever, ever, and did I say ever, wants to try and figure out how we got the drugs started here? Is there anyone left in this world that is still stupid enough to believe that we have drugs because we only recently developed the desire for them?

The general government of the Union has no traditional police powers that are inherent and organic to any State; but only those powers delegated to that government by the several States.

My only desire is that you one day, maybe, Thor willing, make some sort of cogent sense.

Can you go on on how someone, let someone get harmed, only and only because they were under the influence of cannabis, then please go on.
Quadrupled?! Even the US government says that the majority of cannabis samples seized rose from 5% THC to just over 9% today. That is barley a doubling in the potency, of a non-toxic compound that has never in documented medical history resulted in an overdose. Also increases in potency is a product of prohibition. Several ounces are going to get your the same punishment if caught with the good stuff or the bad stuff so if you are a dealer, why bother with the latter? So what does that have to do with cannabis which is less addictive than tobacco, alcohol and even caffeine? There is no evidence that prohibition/decriminalization/legalization has any significant effect on the usage rates of drugs, as shown by countries such as Portugal and the Netherlands that have very liberal drug policies. There is also no evidence that cannabis use in adulthood permanently alters brain structure or function or that it kills brain cells. Studies that say otherwise do not control for the "chicken/egg" effect, poly-drug use, have extremely small sample groups, etc.
What is a farmer going to grow, if pot becomes legal? And if you think the taxes off of pot are going to make us rich, read about how the bootlegger Bronfmans got filthy rich after alcohol was made legal. By the way, barley can be eaten by cows, corn can be eaten by pigs and cows, potatoes can be eaten by us, but pot's only purpose is to be smoked! That is the kind that ropes aren't made with. Even though we have a boozer problem here, alcohol is consumed in other countries without so much problems. I don't drink or smoke, anything, so I'm not defending drinking, but pot dishes out a much larger problem than just a bunch of dull folks wanting to smoke it. If you want a harsh reference to the same kind of comparison with pot, look at the crime rate in Amsterdam.
Here is a question. When, where, and how, did we the United States of America, EVER, have a war on drugs? There has never been a banker locked up for laundering drug money in this country. Even when they plead guilty! Want times and dates?
You can bitch about big 'gummit' all you want, but the blame comes right back to the American People. There is no way, that those several hundred people on the hill, can do anything at all without our permission. You put several thousand people anywhere, and you will see action. We would rather bitch than get up off of our lazy asses and work hard to make change. Some people refuse to do it because they might just have to do a little studying. OMG![/QUOTE]


The paragraph is your friend, use them!

Well, I thank you for addressing all my points, however, you are missing some important pieces to the puzzle.

Ever hear of Mike Levine, Celerino Castillo, or Dennis Dayle?

No, of course you haven't.

Someday, of you ever wish to educate yourself on this topic, research these 3 men.

Until then, have fun debating a topic you know little to nothing about.

Oh yeah, just in case you care about the truth, which I seriously doubt, but just in case I am wrong and you do care about the truth, search under these keywords............

"Narco colonialism"

Enjoy.

EDIT:

I edited out my childish comments and will just ask you a single question.

How many hours have you spent researching marijuana?

Want to ask me a specific question, or are you going to evade all of my issues like others do? Not only have I researched the issue, but I did not stop with the research of the 70s in order to push inaccuracies like some have. I'm glad you edited out your childish comments. A restraint I wish others could observe. Why and how have we gotten this drug problem? Is there still someone out there that is is stupid enough to believe that we have illegal drugs because we just happened to developed the desire and demand?