Guns and alcohol - Page 3 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Tautog · #31 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009

Quote:

Zsu2357:
Mankind is the only animal species that kills for pleasure!
Which I deem a good reason to keep a 9mil. loaded at night at arms reach.
In keeping with the thread:don't drink and shoot(to hard to hit the target)lol

I'm pretty sure my cat kills for pleasure.

Hafke · #32 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tautog

I'm pretty sure my cat kills for pleasure.

As does mine. As do dolphins, curiously.

- National Wildlife Magazine

Killer dolphins baffle marine experts - Telegraph

countryboy · #33 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

Hmm gun laws still a issue!

The GUN LOBBYIST will never give up their arms even if the laws are changed. What they fell to acknowledge, the laws says americans have the right to bare arms in a Malitia...they always leave that one word out. When the law was written the govt feared being evaded by England. The govt meant that it would be legal to pass out arms to it's citizens in a time of war forming a malitia. It was like deputizing members of the public to fight against England had they been invaded. That is all that law meant in IT"S TIME when written.

The US forefathers didnt mean you had the right to keep automatic weapons,bazuka's or tanks just because you could afford them or want them. In most states if not all, in public you are not meant to conceal them. You dont see gun holders walking down the streets with guns holstered and strapped to their sides, to do otherwise is illegal unless you work and you have a permit to conceal the weapon. Even police don't conceal their weapons.

The gun issue is about power and fear. If people didnt live in fear they wouldnt have any use for them...outside of hunting for food, the police and military. Until you solve this problem that will never go away the media and govt will see to that. You are not fearful of law abiding people only the criminals and you cant tell from sight who a criminal is or there mental compacity.

What I find to be a laugh...they took cigeratte smoking out of most if not all movies and TV programing because its bad for our health and say nothing about guns! Our culture feeds on violence, westerns, war movies,police chases, even when we fight aliens in films. The girls are given dolls as kids and boys trucks and guns!

Mankind is the only animal species that kills for pleasure!

The good senator doesnt make this point about a Malitia...he wants to get back into office to keep his perks going!

There is absolutely no prohibition against bare arms in America.

Perhaps you could explain to me where this says the government will pass out arms (bare or not) to a "malitia":

Quote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

.....the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Just because you guys screwed up and allowed your arms to be taken doesn't mean we will.

Are you seriously trying to tell me the framers of the Constitution of The United States of America were so stupid, they didn't realize weapons technology would advance?

Could you please point me to the part of the Constitution which says: "That is all that law meant in IT"S TIME when written"?

Have you ever actually read our Constitution?

danielpalos · #34 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009

Actually, a modern interpretation of the 2A could be said to only exempt people who keep and bear arms, and are part of a well regulated militia, from State gun control laws.

CYDdharta · #35 (**permalink**) 07-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

Hmm gun laws still a issue!

The GUN LOBBYIST will never give up their arms even if the laws are changed. What they fell to acknowledge, the laws says americans have the right to bare arms in a Malitia...they always leave that one word out. When the law was written the govt feared being evaded by England. The govt meant that it would be legal to pass out arms to it's citizens in a time of war forming a malitia. It was like deputizing members of the public to fight against England had they been invaded. That is all that law meant in IT"S TIME when written.

… and gun prohibitionists ALWAYS ignore the legal definition and composition of a militia, and that the second amendment is a “right of the people”. When even the USSC recognizes the fact that the Second Amendment confers an individual right unconnected to militia service, it’s time to drop that particular fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

The US forefathers didnt mean you had the right to keep automatic weapons,bazuka's or tanks just because you could afford them or want them. In most states if not all, in public you are not meant to conceal them. You dont see gun holders walking down the streets with guns holstered and strapped to their sides, to do otherwise is illegal unless you work and you have a permit to conceal the weapon. Even police don't conceal their weapons.

Over half the states (and about 2/3 of the land-mass) of the country do allow open carry in public. Additionally, most (39 of 50) states have “shall issue” concealed carry laws. Police often do carry concealed weapons, as back-ups or depending on their attire.

Open carry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US Map of CCW Laws

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

The gun issue is about power and fear. If people didnt live in fear they wouldnt have any use for them...outside of hunting for food, the police and military. Until you solve this problem that will never go away the media and govt will see to that. You are not fearful of law abiding people only the criminals and you cant tell from sight who a criminal is or there mental compacity.

The gun issue is about personal safety and responsibility and the simple acknowledgement that the government cannot, nor is it desirable that it be able, to protect every citizen from every violent criminal act, as such power by the state would ravage personal freedom and our right to privacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

What I find to be a laugh...they took cigeratte smoking out of most if not all movies and TV programing because its bad for our health and say nothing about guns! Our culture feeds on violence, westerns, war movies,police chases, even when we fight aliens in films. The girls are given dolls as kids and boys trucks and guns!

Cigarettes, when used as the manufacturer intended, is inherently unhealthy, the same cannot be said of guns. It is only when they are misused; either willfully or thru negligence, that guns have a harmful impact on health. Let’s not forget that those games of cops and robbers can also serve as the starting point on the path to a career serving the public welfare as a law enforcement officer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

Mankind is the only animal species that kills for pleasure!

As has already been pointed out, you obviously don’t know much about cats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

The good senator doesnt make this point about a Malitia...he wants to get back into office to keep his perks going!

You’re right, if the Senator had made that point about the militia, it would (and should) hurt his chances on getting back into office. How could such a person be an effective representative if they don’t understand the law?

zsu2357 · #36 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provocative

H mm gun laws still a issue!

The GUN LOBBYIST will never give up their arms even if the laws are changed. What they fell to acknowledge, the laws says Americans have the right to bare arms in a Militia...they always leave that one word out. When the law was written the govt feared being evaded by England. The govt meant that it would be legal to pass out arms to it's citizens in a time of war forming a malitia. It was like deputizing members of the public to fight against England had they been invaded. That is all that law meant in IT"S TIME when written.

The US forefathers didn't mean you had the right to keep automatic weapons,bazooka's or tanks just because you could afford them or want them. In most states if not all, in public you are not meant to conceal them. You don't see gun holders walking down the streets with guns holstered and strapped to their sides, to do otherwise is illegal unless you work and you have a permit to conceal the weapon. Even police don't conceal their weapons.

The gun issue is about power and fear. If people didn't live in fear they wouldn't have any use for them...outside of hunting for food, the police and military. Until you solve this problem that will never go away the media and govt will see to that. You are not fearful of law abiding people only the criminals and you cant tell from sight who a criminal is or there mental
capacity.

What I find to be a laugh...they took cigarettes out of most if not all movies and TV programing because its bad for our health and say nothing about guns! Our culture feeds on violence, westerns, war movies,police chases, even when we fight aliens in films. The girls are given dolls as kids and boys trucks and guns!

Mankind is the only animal species that kills for pleasure!

The good senator doesn't make this point about a Militia...he wants to get back into office to keep his perks going!

No we won't give them up (or hand them over like SOME).

The gun issue is about power and fear

Yes to a point.With guns the people have a say(not that were amassing on the frontiers of a new revolution but hey)
FEAR?yeah I guess ,some of the nut jobs that would revel in disarmament won't have to worry about getting shot.
hell not even the nut jobs just crime in general.

The US forefathers didn't mean you had the right to keep automatic weapons,bazooka's or tanks

I don't think the forefathers foresaw auto weapons or tanks,had they we
would probably have them (sans tanks).

Our culture feeds on violence, westerns, war movies,police chases, even when we fight aliens in films. The girls are given dolls as kids and boys trucks and guns!

Our culture butt out of it, you gave yours up,we ain't you!

P.S.you might turn your spell check on (not trying to be an ass).

CYDdharta · #37 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by zsu2357

FEAR?yeah I guess ,some of the nut jobs that would revel in disarmament won't have to worry about getting shot.
hell not even the nut jobs just crime in general.

I don't agree that it's really an issue of living in fear any more than owing a fire extinguisher indicates living in fear of being burned alive, or wearing a seat belt indicates a fear of becoming a casualty on the highway. It’s simply a precaution; an acknowledgment that crime exists, sometimes violent, and that there may not be anyone around to keep you from becoming another victim.

zsu2357 · #38 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

I don't agree that it's really an issue of living in fear any more than owing a fire extinguisher indicates living in fear of being burned alive, or wearing a seat belt indicates a fear of becoming a casualty on the highway. It’s simply a precaution; an acknowledgment that crime exists, sometimes violent, and that there may not be anyone around to keep you from becoming another victim.

O.K.your right precaution is a better word,but I used fear because that is how
Provocative used it.

Speaking of Provocative:
Our culture feeds on violence, westerns, war movies,police chases, even when we fight aliens in films. The girls are given dolls as kids and boys trucks and guns.

I think you were speaking of yours, my bad sorry.

countryboy · #39 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielpalos

Actually, a modern interpretation of the 2A could be said to only exempt people who keep and bear arms, and are part of a well regulated militia, from State gun control laws.

Sure, it could also be said that the Second Amendment requires jelly beans to rain from the sky on the first, and third Sunday of each month, but it doesn't mean that interpretation would be correct. Does it?

Seriously, what part of: "the right of the people.........." is so difficult to understand? Why don't you just be honest, and say you disagree with the Second Amendment, instead of trying to twist the meaning to suit your agenda?

danielpalos · #40 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

I am glad you have a sense of humor.

However, the fact remains that current practice in the US is to routinely exempt people who keep and bear arms and are part of a well regulated Militia (e.g. National Guard).

Consider that "gun control" can be considered and inherent and organic States' right, and that private property is also usually protected by State constitutions.

The 2A only exempts people who keep and bear arms and who are part of a well regulated militia, from State gun control laws.

reality · #41 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielpalos

I am glad you have a sense of humor.

However, the fact remains that current practice in the US is to routinely exempt people who keep and bear arms and are part of a well regulated Militia (e.g. National Guard).

Consider that "gun control" can be considered and inherent and organic States' right, and that private property is also usually protected by State constitutions.

The 2A only exempts people who keep and bear arms and who are part of a well regulated militia, from State gun control laws.

actually militia is defined as any male citizen subject to the call to military service. if you signed your selective service (draft) agreement you are part of the militia. hands off my guns.

danielpalos · #42 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

The 2A specifically enumerates not just any Militia, but a well regulated Militia of individuals who keep and bear arms.

Since an anarchy or mob of individuals who keep and bear arms have no wellness of regulation (or muster points), they are not necessary to the security of a free State. Therefore, only a Militia of individuals who keep and bear arms is exempted from State gun control laws, while an anarchy or mob of individuals who keep and bear arms, are not.

CYDdharta · #43 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielpalos

The 2A specifically enumerates not just any Militia, but a well regulated Militia of individuals who keep and bear arms.

Since an anarchy or mob of individuals who keep and bear arms have no wellness of regulation (or muster points), they are not necessary to the security of a free State. Therefore, only a Militia of individuals who keep and bear arms is exempted from State gun control laws, while an anarchy or mob of individuals who keep and bear arms, are not.

A swing and a miss;

Quote:

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

The militia needs to be “well regulated” only when it’s called to arms.

reality · #44 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielpalos

The 2A specifically enumerates not just any Militia, but a well regulated Militia of individuals who keep and bear arms.

Since an anarchy or mob of individuals who keep and bear arms have no wellness of regulation (or muster points), they are not necessary to the security of a free State. Therefore, only a Militia of individuals who keep and bear arms is exempted from State gun control laws, while an anarchy or mob of individuals who keep and bear arms, are not.

selective service is very well regulated. we've got numbers and everthing

danielpalos · #45 (**permalink**) 07-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

A swing and a miss;

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

The militia needs to be “well regulated” only when it’s called to arms.

How did you reach that conclusion? How often do they muster? It cannot be a Militia, at all, if they don't muster.

In any event, only the organized militia qualifies as a well regulated militia. The unorganized militia constitutes an anarchy or mob of people who keep and bear arms, and are the primary purpose for State gun control laws.

The 2A only exempts individuals who keep and bear arms, and who participate in a well regulated militia, from State gun control laws.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode