Originally Posted by reality

i said have them raise their own food. just do it inside the walls. or inside WALLS.

i said DON"T give them roadwork.

the ac isn't really a luxury as much as you think. they keep it (from experience, and note this is just in county jails, three seperate occasions of personal experience. state pens don't have ac according to an ex con friend o mine) at a constant BALLS ASS COLD. like 60. and youre wearing like thin scrubs, have no socks, and no underwear. the floors are stone. your blanket is enough for half your body. its cold as fuck allllllll the time. i was freezing my sack off and i don't have a big problem with it being chilly. which is a punishment in and of itself i say.

Originally Posted by zsu2357

Yes I know you said that,(raise food inside)but its like I said whats wrong with doing it on the outside on prison farms?I'm talking minimum security risk
prisoners due to be released in maybe 6 mo.to a year and come back at night
behind walls.A.C.?ok acceptable, someone with heat stroke can't work,or
frost bite.The guys what I've heard working those farms or least wise this one
in salem,Or. have it pretty good.And that is from people I personally know
that been there and done it.

Originally Posted by reality

as long as theres more than a chain link fence around the farm. the point of prison is the walls, the not having a doorknob or a look at the outside world. part of the torture of it is feeling like youre locked in a box with the world just passing you by.

Originally Posted by zsu2357

But you are still under the gun if you will and I still think someone would be an idiot to run with a few months time to do( it has happened hell my brother did)
but by far the bulk don't.
Besides I'm not talking about the hardcore or the ones that ran before.

Originally Posted by reality

it doesn't matter. part of jail is BEING in a box. not seeing anything but those walls day in and day out. if youve never been in i wouldn't expect you to know what i'm talking about

Originally Posted by zsu2357

Well if you've been there would you have liked that opportunity if you qualified?you are right being in a box is part of it,yeah I'll
give a little here.

Originally Posted by Provocative

Dont you just love it everytime someone wants to address a public/social problem, the battle cry is always "The TAXPAYER"

You that make this cry....whatever your annual salary is, you think the bit the govt 'witholds' before you even see it pays for 1 road,teacher,school,prison,hospital,police salary,have you garbage picked up,welfare cheque for support,build a highway, etc etc Just how much money are you making! The little tax the govt withholds from your pay DOESNT cover the cost of any 1 of these things, let alone the great list of what our taxes are suppose to cover.

I get sick and tired of people expressing as if THEY personally are funding all these things from THEIR income.
When you speak on prison reform....you have to address what leads one to criminal activities in the first place, while incarcerated how much time is spent in a cell/work/training, the corruption of those who run them, the will/desire to be reformed,the environment inside of prisons and what happens when you mix 1st time offenders with repeat or never to be released offenders,the cost of building/staffing/training in a place where dignity/respect is lost amongst the prison population.

When we ALL know it's down to...Out of sight out mind! We dont give a toss what happen to those put in prison because most say if they had done the right thing they wouldnt be there. When you house men and treat them like animals and release them back into the community with no job, no financial suppport....and they front up to a employer Ive been in prison for the last 5-10 years will you give me a job, what in the HELL do you expect!

They come out and through no fault of their own the system/society sets them up to return! All the training in the world isnt going to change that. You can call trades training prison reform all you want. Give a ex con a welfare cheque and release him from prison to a changed world, inflated prices, no support and expect him to find food/shelter/clothing and J O B required to survive in life......who are we kidding but ourselves.

Reform isnt about teaching a criminal a trade or expecting him to work like a slave for no wages because you have him locked up. Then when you release him back into society when he has spent time with other criminals learning their criminal trades, after being raped and degraded think society will benefit from that.

Originally Posted by Provocative

Dont you just love it everytime someone wants to address a public/social problem, the battle cry is always "The TAXPAYER"

You that make this cry....whatever your annual salary is, you think the bit the govt 'witholds' before you even see it pays for 1 road,teacher,school,prison,hospital,police salary,have you garbage picked up,welfare cheque for support,build a highway, etc etc Just how much money are you making! The little tax the govt withholds from your pay DOESNT cover the cost of any 1 of these things, let alone the great list of what our taxes are suppose to cover
I get sick and tired of people expressing as if THEY personally are funding all these things from THEIR income.

I don't think anyone is saying its only just their taxes paying,but you add them up with everyone else's and they do.I'm not sure how they do things
across the big water but here in the states the feds.kick in to the prison system or give the money to the state to dole out(mistake?maybe)




When you speak on prison reform....you have to address what leads one to criminal activities in the first place, while incarcerated how much time is spent in a cell/work/training, the corruption of those who run them, the will/desire to be reformed,the environment inside of prisons and what happens when you mix 1st time offenders with repeat or never to be released offenders,the cost of building/staffing/training in a place where dignity/respect is lost amongst the prison population.

When we ALL know it's down to...Out of sight out mind! We dont give a toss what happen to those put in prison because most say if they had done the right thing they wouldnt be there. When you house men and treat them like animals and release them back into the community with no job, no financial suppport....and they front up to a employer Ive been in prison for the last 5-10 years will you give me a job, what in the HELL do you expect!

They come out and through no fault of their own the system/society sets them up to return! All the training in the world isnt going to change that. You can call trades training prison reform all you want. Give a ex con a welfare cheque and release him from prison to a changed world, inflated prices, no support and expect him to find food/shelter/clothing and J O B required to survive in life......who are we kidding but ourselves.

Reform isnt about teaching a criminal a trade or expecting him to work like a slave for no wages because you have him locked up. Then when you release him back into society when he has spent time with other criminals learning their criminal trades, after being raped and degraded think society will benefit from that.

Originally Posted by Provocative

They come out and through no fault of their own the system/society sets them up to return! All the training in the world isnt going to change that. You can call trades training prison reform all you want. Give a ex con a welfare cheque and release him from prison to a changed world, inflated prices, no support and expect him to find food/shelter/clothing and J O B required to survive in life......who are we kidding but ourselves.

Originally Posted by Provocative

"ahh i see. so its no fault of their own that they get released from their latest stretch in county for theft, and go right back and start stealing shit? right, thats not their fault at all. '

Im not talking about stints in COUNTY jails

I lock you up in prison.....and you have been reformed in the last 5-20 years you spent locked up. When I say You have geniunely reforms it means you dont intend to continue to be a criminal, sorry for your past activities and you may have been able to learn a trade or even get a degree during your stay.

Now YOU are let out....with what amount to a welfare cheque. You have to find a half-way house or room if no family to take you in. That cost money, you will need utilities such as electricity and/or gas that cost money, you have to feed yourself and that will cost money. To get employment you have to have more than one set of proper clothes for the interview and after should you get the job that takes money.

When you go for the interview to get a job to stay on that reformed path....what's your resume going to say you been doing for the last 5 years! Now you tell me...would You tell us on this forum...would you hire you! Tell us what would YOU do to compete with those with no criminal record for the jobs you apply for?

Mr Middle Class america what would you do when that cheque or future cheques stop. Would you remain HONORABLE stay reformed and become homeless and a beggar in the streets that get the same respect you give criminals Nada! Now remember YOU are reformed fresh out of prison and have no family or friends for support.....and with one cheque your told go, restart your life and be a good boy!

Through no fault of your reformed mind...could you do it! Your back to square one, you have reformed learned a trade and even have a degree. Money talks and telling a employer you have spent the past years in prison and your a ex con isnt going to help you. Is this your reformed fault or how the system works?

If you want to say the guy shouldnt have done the crime in the 1st place...whats the point of talking about reforming him and release him back into a unforgiving society!

Originally Posted by fishjoel

I think most people think that we need to do something different with how the prison system operates. I'm not sure there is one person that says, "Our prisons are A-OK." I, personally, hate the idea of criminal deviants getting three squares a day and lodging on the tab of the tax payers. Not only is it costing each state millions of dollars, the criminals are in prison behaving in a way not conducive to reform (murder, drug, racially/gang fueled violence/rape). I say enough with codelling these criminals. It's time they work for us, since we are paying them.

This is a good start.

Joe Arpaio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What we need to do is have a labor system set up for those incarcerated. If you are in prison, you are working. If you don't want to work, then you are in solitary confinement. In solitary you get no air conditioning of any sort and you get water to drink and you minimum daily recommended nutrients. That's it.

This would be a graduated scale of labor.

You start out working all day, every day. You wake up in the morning and eat breakfast and then go to work. You get a lunch break and go back to work. You get a dinner break and go back to work. You go back to the tents and shower up and go to bed. This first level of work would be the hardest, most labor intensive, job that the state needs doing. The prisoners shouldn't have the time to worry about who is in what gang and what color someone is. The only thing they would have to think about is how tired they are. This would be 7 days a week, 365 day a year. The period of time required to stay on this level until you can move up is yet to be determined.

If you do a good job with the lower level of labor you can graduate to the next level. This level could include some extra privileges. It could be scaled down to a 5 day work week and entail less labor intensive work. They could also have a few more options of food to choose from. The period of time required to stay on this level until you can move up is yet to be determined.

The final level of work would be vocational work. There would be few options the prisoners could choose from. They would get on-the-job training in the field of their choice. They would be provided with the best rooms that are offered and the best food that the prisons could offer. They could get the weekends off and have holidays. They could even collect vacations days to spend when they were not needed at the job.

If you get in a fight, if you break any rules you start back in solitary. To earn you way back up you have to take twice as long as the initial phase. Solitary confinement would be such that it would cost the tax payers not much more than a couple of dollars a day.

I also think that, if a prisoner finally gets out, that there could be a placement program that would help the prisoner get a job in the field in which they chose. Places of employment could get tax incentives by hiring these workers. This would help them get jobs even with a record. With a solid job and a work ethic they would, imo, have a much lower rate of recidivism.

Almost all the work provided to the state would be done in prison camps. Each camp would provide the location and labor for whatever level the prisoner is currently rated at. There would be no mixing with the different tiers of reform.

This would save each state millions and would also go a long way to reforming criminals.

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