Nope, lots of illegals Hispanics that can't speak English.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

That is not necessarily true. If it were me, and I was putting up as much as $50 large, I'd go with my instincts and references with respect to a contractor.

If, on the other hand, the 30 grand contractor had come to my attention through a friend and had the contractor had excellent refrences, well, than he'd get the job.

The problem with the hypethetical is that there is a $20,000 gap: that raises suspicions right there. If a contrctor who is using jippo labor says he can do it for that much less - he ain't gettin my $30 grand.

Do try to keep up with the thread topic.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

Understood. But I think for the purpose of the thread, the work would have to be assumed to be generally equivalent.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

There's too much of a gap for me to rationalize a true equality there. Sorry. If the gap were closer and I knew the contracotr with this jippo labor as I stated ealier, then sure, why not. But with this hypethetcial, that's my choice.

I doubt you will be still able to find a lot of illegal immigrants from Eire or England in the modern day US. But that does not really affect your poll I guess. Its a very interesting question indeed, one where the answer you will get publicly might differ from the choices made in reality.

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""Even though our unity is our strength, our diversity remains our wealth,""
Herman Van Rompuy

Team A and B are both workers or the work force because slavery has been outlawed. The power and influence doesnt come from the employee but from the employer.

What we need to return to...[ It will never happen ] is return to a more nomadic behaviour and a planet without borders requiring passports.

You are critisizing illegal migrants that are trying to do nothing more than to survive and feed/clothed and house their families. You arent talking about how employers are GIVING your jobs away by sending them offshore. You loose far more places for employment doing this than the 100's that cross your border with mexico.

If you were to tally up all those that over stay their holiday or working visa's and thus becoming illegals....the mexicans wouldnt hold 1st place on the illegal migrants list! Then you have to ask.....how many americans have crossed over to Canada/Mexico and other countries doing the same thing!

You do give a toss what your country men do in other countries, you only cry what happens in yours. It doesnt really matter when illegals or people on working visa's take money out of the country if they are working for companies that ARENT american owned just on american soil!

Laughing did illegal migrants cause financial institutions, general motors and other corporate businesses to collapse? Did any set up a scheme like Bernie did and fleece billions from you........NO!

an added point......You much rather have your own go on Welfare which you also complain about instead of seeing them take low paying jobs that no one wants unless desparate for cash or see them cross city/state/country borders to find work!

Then turn around and say lets invade Iraq because WE dont have enough oil to run our cars! I dont think any illegal migrants are leaving cities or your country in rubble to get what they want! You TAKE from others and want to protect what you do have left.

Does that make sense to you? Are you suggesting that illegals should stay in their own country and resort to crime and mayhem rather than chase a pay packet like some of our LEGALS and born in the USA do!

*nods to CYDdarta*

good mornin' mighty CYD!

aye me friend, when i rechecked the graph i was citing, it appears also that it was referrin' to "legal immigration" (there were many, many graphs on the report and i was just curious as to what the breakdown was in relation to the illegal immigrants and thar point 'o origin).

imma readin' it more carefully now and it seems like a rather scathin' report on some 'o the costs them undocumented workers and thar spawn have to the economy, in relation to social services.

me point was that illegal immigrants come from more places than mexico, though it seems that all posts and all rancor be directed as hispanics, specifically.

whilst i agrees with ye fully that this be because the bulk 'o undocumented workers be from mexico, i also think that the sheer...i can't find the right word...hmm...the sheer dislike fer these illegal immigrants stems, to a certain degree, from thar racial stereotypes.

the odd soundin' language...be it a stretch to say that many 'o the fine americans 'o our land find west european accents more lyrical?

the dense oily hair, the sheen on thar faces.

the preponderance 'o undocumented mexicans workin' low wage jobs...peasants, aye?

the grabbin' 'o buttocks in mrs. m's bar (imma not fer a minute disputin' mrs. m's anecdotes, i believe her. i just don't think that boorish behavior or the grabbin' 'o buttocks be the sole province 'o mexican laborers. i think many nationalities probably grab buttocks).

...and, like i was sayin', i just found it odd that i've never seen, not once in five years, any kinda post or thread that had any kinda heat directed at the scores 'o other illegal immigrants that pour into our vessel.

me poll wasn't about hispanic undocumented workers (in me poll they be irish and english, yarr!) or the quality 'o thar work. the assumption fer me poll be that the work be 'o equal craftsmanship. aye, i'll go further, just to clarify...

when the seas have receded and turned to dust, when the towers we've built have fallen into rubble, when our children and thar children have long since perished, when the sun goes supernova and all life on our planet has passed....the two additions made by Team A and Team B are the last structures made by man standin'. the work from both teams be stellar!

the small results from me poll here on USPOL and to a greater degree, the response i've gotten from swabbys i know in real life indicated, 'least to me, that the problem be this; while most americans feel discomfort and dismay at the idear 'o immigrants flowin' into this nation illegally and takin' up jobs and social services, this sentiment only exists in the abstract.

once they set sail and are out thar navigatin' the stormy economic seas, our fellow citizens 'o our fine land no longer consider the fleet, but the well bein' o' thar own particlar vessel. the ocean 'o fiscal reality crashes against the hull 'o thar ships, thar ideals be washed away and whats left be thar own personal pocketbook issues.

and then?

*shakes his cutlass at the sky*

well...and then they hire team A.

america doesn't have to be protected from illegal aliens.

americans need to be protected from themselves and thar thirst fer cheap (dirt cheap) efficient labor.

fer all you "government isn't the solution, its the problem" types who are so eager to have government come in to solve this issue, here's the news me friends : the private sector is the problem.

*puts his foot down*

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

Isn't this a Global economy anyway? money spent is money spent and its not like the money spent in the US always stays here. And the money spent in Colombia doesn't just stay there.

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^^ Its not that easy. It makes a difference once money crosses the boarders of certain economic zones/communities/markets or also currency areas. Thats why we economists have numbers like trade deficits or surpluses to describe the tendencies.

Thats of course simplistic up to an extend, it makes already a difference within countries, when money from the "rust belt" is moving towards the "sun belt" it also makes a difference, but the common currency will remain uneffected, so the difference is not as large.

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""Even though our unity is our strength, our diversity remains our wealth,""
Herman Van Rompuy

Like the old saying goes.... You get what you pay for. Pay shit for work and you get shit work. Trust me on this one. Our house was just built two years ago with a crew that was nothing BUT Hispanics and we literally have nails coming through the mud in the drywall, doors that already have to be adjusted (and readjusted) because they are starting to not close properly (I won't even get into having to re-drill the holes for the bolt locks), uneven flooring under our carpet that you can actually feel as you walk across, and a whole host of other issues.

But, had we said anything about the non-English speaking Hispanics at the work-site who slap these houses together in a matter of weeks... we would of course been labeled as racists.

I understand that there is much more than what i mentioned, im not an economist... does illegal immigration hurt our economy that bad to where it affects our place on the global market? It just seems to me that, in the grand scheme of things, if money is being spent then thats a good thing, regardless of where its being spent at... or who the money is going to.

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Ahh, thank you Melanie. I rest my case.

lol how on earth is it immoral?

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine