illegal aliens or americans? - Page 6 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

jet57 · #76 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Of course, my comment made more sense. Hiring illegals is not just illegal, it's immoral...

So, you're saying that any practice that does not fit with your idea of patriotism is immoral.

I see.

lpfan13612 · #77 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jet57

So, you're saying that any practice that does not fit with your idea of patriotism is immoral.

I see.

Steve's just being a typical "patriot", you can't blame him for not fully understanding the other side. He's just looking for any way to seem macho.

MeadHallPirate · #78 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

aye.

ahoy mateys, g'afternoon to ye all.

i just wanted to clarify, once more...

these undocumented irishmen and englishmen are top notch folks. charismatic and full 'o courtly charm...plus, they be skilled artisans. fer the purposes 'o me poll, the only issue is that they happen to be in our fine land illegally.

they be non-hispanic illegal aliens.

the work team A would do, should they be hired, would be exemplary!

aye!

- MeadHallPirate

Mrs. M · #79 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

aye.

ahoy mateys, g'afternoon to ye all.

i just wanted to clarify, once more...

these undocumented irishmen and englishmen are top notch folks. charismatic and full 'o courtly charm...plus, they be skilled artisans. fer the purposes 'o me poll, the only issue is that they happen to be in our fine land illegally.

they be non-hispanic illegal aliens.

the work team A would do, should they be hired, would be exemplary!

aye!

- MeadHallPirate

Doesn't matter where they come from and how well they do the work...if they're not here legally, I won't hire them because if I did, I'd also be a criminal.

solletica · #80 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

*MeadHallPirate takes out his crayons to make yet another poll*

mateys,

i was thinkin' that blamin' the illegal aliens fer comin' to our country be kinda like blamin' mexico fer the cannabis consumption here in america.

i wanted to put a question to all of ye;
(disclaimer - i don't know nothin' about contractin' and what the costs be, the only tools i own be a hammer and i think i have a tape measure somewhar, so please humor me fer me hypothetical)

yer addin' an addition on yer business, things be goin' well and ye needs more space on yer buildin'.

ye have two crews ye can hire. both teams will build an addition of equal quality.

one team 'o contractors has alot 'o illegal immigrants, irishmen and englishmen who're here without documentation, team "a". the cost fer the addition by this crew will be $30,000.

the other team be made up entirely 'o american citizens, team "b". the cost fer the addition by this crew will be $50,000.

who would ye hire?

aye?

- MeadHallPirate

In a global economy, the question doesn't make sense from a theoretical perspective, because in a deregulated market where an employer is free to hire anyone, two crews who do work of the same quality would always cost the same, no exceptions.

Put in another way, in the real world, the person who hires the $50,000 crew will get $50,000 worth of work, whereas the person who hires the $30,000 crew will get $30,000 worth of work. So if I only wanted $30,000 worth of work, I'd hire Team A.

Whereas if I wanted $50,000 worth of work, I'd hire Team B. But to consider the residency status (as opposed to the work performance) of the individual being hired is financially reckless, and anyone who does will be crushed in the marketplace.

solletica · #81 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

aye.

ahoy mateys, g'afternoon to ye all.

i just wanted to clarify, once more...

these undocumented irishmen and englishmen are top notch folks. charismatic and full 'o courtly charm...plus, they be skilled artisans. fer the purposes 'o me poll, the only issue is that they happen to be in our fine land illegally.

they be non-hispanic illegal aliens.

the work team A would do, should they be hired, would be exemplary!

If they do exemplary work, why would they only charge $30,000? Makes no sense.

MeadHallPirate · #82 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by solletica

If they do exemplary work, why would they only charge $30,000? Makes no sense.

*acknowledges the Solletica the anime*

aye aye lass! if ye don't like the way me poll question be framed, thats fine, though judgin' by yer earlier statement...

Quote:

to consider the residency status (as opposed to the work performance) of the individual being hired is financially reckless, and anyone who does will be crushed in the marketplace.

...i'd guess ye would hire team A.

thank ye me friend!

- MeadHallPirate

Steve · #83 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpfan13612

Steve's just being a typical "patriot", you can't blame him for not fully understanding the other side. He's just looking for any way to seem macho.

The "other side" is one comprised of criminals.

I don't need to appear "macho". You're just pissed because you married a criminal, and someone isn't afraid to identify her as such. What did you expect? "Oh, gee, Ipfan, if she's your wife, it was all okay"? No. She was a criminal.

I have no reason to "understand the other side". none whatsoever. They don't fucking belong here, they suck the very life out of our social services, and they're fucking criminals.

Given that, exactly what do you want me to "understand"?

Melanie · #84 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

You know what kills me? We can't enforce our immigration laws because there are too many of them here... but we have plenty of room in jails/prisons for non-violent marijuana offenders. And, if we don't.... well the prison industrial complex would be more than happy to fulfill our request to build more.

I guess it is only acceptable to break the law if you are not a citizen of this country.

CYDdharta · #85 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

*nods to CYDdarta*

good mornin' mighty CYD!

aye me friend, when i rechecked the graph i was citing, it appears also that it was referrin' to "legal immigration" (there were many, many graphs on the report and i was just curious as to what the breakdown was in relation to the illegal immigrants and thar point 'o origin).

imma readin' it more carefully now and it seems like a rather scathin' report on some 'o the costs them undocumented workers and thar spawn have to the economy, in relation to social services.

me point was that illegal immigrants come from more places than mexico, though it seems that all posts and all rancor be directed as hispanics, specifically.

whilst i agrees with ye fully that this be because the bulk 'o undocumented workers be from mexico, i also think that the sheer...i can't find the right word...hmm...the sheer dislike fer these illegal immigrants stems, to a certain degree, from thar racial stereotypes.

the odd soundin' language...be it a stretch to say that many 'o the fine americans 'o our land find west european accents more lyrical?

the dense oily hair, the sheen on thar faces.

the preponderance 'o undocumented mexicans workin' low wage jobs...peasants, aye?

the grabbin' 'o buttocks in mrs. m's bar (imma not fer a minute disputin' mrs. m's anecdotes, i believe her. i just don't think that boorish behavior or the grabbin' 'o buttocks be the sole province 'o mexican laborers. i think many nationalities probably grab buttocks).

...and, like i was sayin', i just found it odd that i've never seen, not once in five years, any kinda post or thread that had any kinda heat directed at the scores 'o other illegal immigrants that pour into our vessel.

me poll wasn't about hispanic undocumented workers (in me poll they be irish and english, yarr!) or the quality 'o thar work. the assumption fer me poll be that the work be 'o equal craftsmanship. aye, i'll go further, just to clarify...

when the seas have receded and turned to dust, when the towers we've built have fallen into rubble, when our children and thar children have long since perished, when the sun goes supernova and all life on our planet has passed....the two additions made by Team A and Team B are the last structures made by man standin'. the work from both teams be stellar!

the small results from me poll here on USPOL and to a greater degree, the response i've gotten from swabbys i know in real life indicated, 'least to me, that the problem be this; while most americans feel discomfort and dismay at the idear 'o immigrants flowin' into this nation illegally and takin' up jobs and social services, this sentiment only exists in the abstract.

once they set sail and are out thar navigatin' the stormy economic seas, our fellow citizens 'o our fine land no longer consider the fleet, but the well bein' o' thar own particlar vessel. the ocean 'o fiscal reality crashes against the hull 'o thar ships, thar ideals be washed away and whats left be thar own personal pocketbook issues.

and then?

*shakes his cutlass at the sky*

well...and then they hire team A.

america doesn't have to be protected from illegal aliens.

americans need to be protected from themselves and thar thirst fer cheap (dirt cheap) efficient labor.

fer all you "government isn't the solution, its the problem" types who are so eager to have government come in to solve this issue, here's the news me friends : the private sector is the problem.

*puts his foot down*

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

I still disagree. If there’s a disproportionate amount of bias against illegal Mexican immigrants, it’s due to two reasons; one is because the number of illegal Mexican immigrants is so vast, and the other is because immigrants from adjoining countries represent an inordinate risk to our nation. If we’d had this problem with Canada rather than Mexico, people would be bitching about those damned frost-back canucks. In other words, the amount of illegal immigration is the cause of any imbalance in bias. As for the government, it is the problem. We aren’t looking to them for a solution, just for them to do their job. They made the laws for legal entry into this country, they enforce laws; it’s only natural to expect them to enforce laws for legal entry into this country, but they don’t. As far as who’s responsible, both the government and the private sector are equally culpable.

MeadHallPirate · #86 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melanie

You know what kills me? We can't enforce our immigration laws because there are too many of them here... but we have plenty of room in jails/prisons for non-violent marijuana offenders. And, if we don't.... well the prison industrial complex would be more than happy to fulfill our request to build more.

I guess it is only acceptable to break the law if you are not a citizen of this country.

*high fives Melanie*

hail thee Melanie!

first off, i miss yer dog avatar, grrr. i likes animals.

secondly yer cannons be firin' on target regardin' yer comment on havin' all them non violent cannabis offenders in jail....yarr to that, mate!

howevers, imma not sure puttin' them undocumented workers in jail be the right tonic fer what ails the country. i remember readin' somewhar the costs 'o puttin' folks in the brig, and the price be tremendous, aye?

the good natured Daddio and i spoke 'bout this on another thread and the ways i sees it, the lure 'o cheap labor be somethin' thats hard fer many americans to resist.

in the shark tank that be the ultra competitive world 'o doin' business in america, the temptation to use undocumented workers be a siren's song that lures many a sailor and i just don't know what can be done 'bout it.

Quote:

"An important issue for micro-businesses owners is when they need to expand, they must also compete against businesses that use undocumented workers in their work force," said NASE lead business consultant Gene Fairbrother. "This can often mean that those who do use illegal immigrants and do not have to deal with employee rights put the businesses that follow the law at a disadvantage because of additional tax costs."

Self-employed business owners see illegal immigration as serious issue - Phoenix Business Journal:

CYDharta and i shall disagree, but in me own opinion, the problem 'o illegal immigration stems greatly from american citizens themselves, and not them undocumented workers. thar must be a better way 'o handlin' things, but i do not know what it is.

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

lpfan13612 · #87 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

The "other side" is one comprised of criminals.

I don't need to appear "macho". You're just pissed because you married a criminal, and someone isn't afraid to identify her as such. What did you expect? "Oh, gee, Ipfan, if she's your wife, it was all okay"? No. She was a criminal.

I have no reason to "understand the other side". none whatsoever. They don't fucking belong here, they suck the very life out of our social services, and they're fucking criminals.

Given that, exactly what do you want me to "understand"?

i just don't want you to make assumptions about a whole group of people based upon a narrow experience. My problem is that you label every "illegal" the same...

I'll agree with your stance on immigration, i DONT support free access to our social services... they don't pay my taxes. But not every Illegal is the same...

Just so im totally clear on your stance, by social services you mean:

Schooling
Emergency Health Care...

What else? cause not every illegal abuses these two systems.

I would be more upset at the employers and the contractors than the workers. I'd kick their asses for exploitation. For the worker its survival, the contractor its a way to make more money.

I should get someone to change my name... its supposed to be Lpfan...

CYDdharta · #88 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

aye.

ahoy mateys, g'afternoon to ye all.

i just wanted to clarify, once more...

these undocumented irishmen and englishmen are top notch folks. charismatic and full 'o courtly charm...plus, they be skilled artisans. fer the purposes 'o me poll, the only issue is that they happen to be in our fine land illegally.

they be non-hispanic illegal aliens.

the work team A would do, should they be hired, would be exemplary!

aye!

- MeadHallPirate

Unfortunately, judging from the responses, it appears the poor reputation for workmanship by the unskilled aliens may taint the reputation of the skilled workers on team A. The only way to assess their ability is to look over the job after its completed, and by then the judgment is worthless.

CYDdharta · #89 (**permalink**) 08-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melanie

You know what kills me? We can't enforce our immigration laws because there are too many of them here... but we have plenty of room in jails/prisons for non-violent marijuana offenders. And, if we don't.... well the prison industrial complex would be more than happy to fulfill our request to build more.

I guess it is only acceptable to break the law if you are not a citizen of this country.

We could put Team A to work building jails.