Well, trust me when I say it is, indeed, your problem. I label all illegals as "scumbags" because that's what they are. They thumb their nose at our laws.

Why should I have any degree of compassion for that?

Yes, they really, really are. They're all here illegally. Nothing about their situations in their homelands sways me. They're here illegally. They're criminals...

Just so im totally clear on your stance, by social services you mean:

I don't believe it. But feel free to prove otherwise...

Survival?

My, how dramatic.

Yes, the people who hire illegals are scumbags, just like the scumbags they hire...

__________________



For those who have fought to defend it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know...



If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...

Nope.

The last cleaning lady we had was a woman named Greta; about 270 pounds of German cleaning machine.

And she was here legally...

__________________



For those who have fought to defend it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know...



If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...

*sighs and considers*

aye CYDdharta, aye....

well, that may be, matey. still, i am not ready to concede this point on this particular thread, because me premise is we be comparin' apples to apples.

me question isn't based on the assumption that team A builds an addition that collapses around yer ears. if that was what i meant to say, i woulda said it, aye?

at any rate, reality also bears out, at least to some degree, me stance on all 'o this. ye can extrapolate (grrr, not a pirate word, too many syllables) me poll to any number 'o industries.

a fruit picker, is a fruit picker, is a fruit picker, aye?

if yer a farm owner and ye can pay all yer american swabbies 100K fer thar labor, or pay illegal aliens 50K, which would you choose?

YARRRRR!!!!!

- MeadHallPirate

Ok, ill use my wife as an example, she came with her mother when she was 17. father was killed in havana by cops, wrong place wrong time... (The LAPD has nothing on these assholes) both held jobs at a small farm working for basically $10 a day and 2 meals. I met her when i was doing my high school volunteer thing for "Participation in Government". After about a year they had enough money for the citizenship test, and both passed. Not once did she attend a US high school and neither used the emergency room.

And yes, survival... dramatic... blah blah... have you lived in California your whole life?

Lpfan

__________________
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The Cubans coming to America only do it for their own greed - NOT because they need to. On Cuba they get free housing, school, higher education, and medicare from the government.

__________________
January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

They should've been sent back to Cuba. For whatever reason, they were permitted access to a legal channel towards citizenship. So be it...

Nope. Born and raised in New York, left when I was 18. The Navy sent me to California in 1981, and then to South Carolina in 1985. They sent me back to California in 1990, and I've been here ever since.

Not that any of that has any impact on my view that those who willfully break our laws to come here are scumbags...

__________________



For those who have fought to defend it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know...



If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...

Good boy! Nothing beats german cleaning anyway...

__________________
January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

Not really. Now that I see the point you’re trying to make, I believe that your poll is flawed. The question you should have asked should have been more along the lines of “if you owned a contracting business, and you could hire legal workers for $15.00 an hour or equally skilled illegal aliens for $9.00 an hour, knowing full well that the government would turn a blind eye, who would you hire?” Even that doesn’t quite work, since the legal workers wouldn’t be taking home $9.00 an hour after Uncle Sam takes his cut, while the illegal aliens, being paid under the table would get to keep it all.

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

*nods in agreement to CYDharta*

well done and point taken, matey! aye!

though in both me version of me poll and yer version the idear was that both parties doin' the hirin' are doin' so knowin' that they be hiring undocumented workers...and the motivation fer the parties doin' the hirin' in both polls be the same...$$$$$.

we can debate the wordin' in me poll till the cows come home, CYDharta.
what cannot be debated be the american lust fer cheap labor...and how that desire be what fuels the immigrant's yearnin' to come here, knowin' that many americans will disregard thar own laws to hire'm.

*bows*

- MeadHallPirate

I need to read more of your post so that I can get ready for "International Talk Like a Pirate Day" I sucked last year!

The Official site for International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19

I still have my guy in my sig... he is never too far away

For those of you that selected Team B, thank you for playing, unfortunately the owners went with a contractor that submitted a lower bid.

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

should have... but weren't... i don't think that makes them scumbags though. they beat the system without abusing it... good for them i say.

What part of New York? Im a liaison on Fort Drum right now. more curious than anything. It makes a difference because you don't know the first thing about having to WANT to be a citizen. you were blessed with citizenship by birth. I obtained mine when i was 12 when i came over from Germany. Legally (just thought i should put that). My wife didn't get hers until she was almost 19...

I guess my point is that there are good "illegals" out there.

Everything else though, ill agree with you on.

Lpfan

__________________
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Earn Rake-back when you sign up!!!

That's why after only 2 years my POS house is starting to fall apart.

However... the OWNERS didn't choose who was going to be working on the house... the contractor did. We bought our house from a developer that was building the subdivision in the area we wanted. It isn't a custom house that we actually were able to draw the plans up for. Nothing really special... but it's OURS.

Well, it’s not really Americans that you’re trying to gauge here, it’s businesses, which is why I think you’re asking the wrong question. I wouldn’t say that your poll, at this point in time, shows a “lust” for cheap labor. Businesses exist to make a profit. If the government doesn’t care whether the workers are legal or not, then if one company is willing to hire illegal aliens, their competitors need to follow suit just to stay in the game. “Americans” aren’t in the same cut-throat game. Individuals have the leeway to act for what’s best for the community. I think this poll clearly illustrates that many, if not most, keep that in mind. After all, volunteer organizations aren’t staffed by corporations, they’re staffed by Americans who are willing to donate their time to causes they believe are in the best interest of their respective communities.

Another integral part of this is the government’s collision in this situation. With the question I posed, if there was even 1 chance in 4 that your workers would be deported, and your business would be fined out of existence, I believe the poll results would be quite a bit different.

__________________
“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

*takes a final stroll ondeck before gulpin' down his nightly ambien*

ahoy oh tireless CYDharta!

hmmm.

i guess we'll just have different interpretations 'o me poll, me friend.

a big part 'o life be the race...the competitive part 'o things that never stops swirlin' around each 'o us.

imma business owner, in me poll question. i wants to hire a crew to make an addition to me business. both the crews imma lookin' at do fine work, though one has lower costs due to the cheap, illegal labor they employ.

in me hypothetical, i happen to know, fer certain, that one crew has alotta illegal immigrants in it. that cheap labor allows the american owner 'o team A to offer up comparable work at a lower cost.

in me heart 'o hearts, i know that hirin' team A be wrong, if for no other reason, because its bloody illegal. its wrong on a societal level also, i know this to be true.

on the other hand, that monies i save can help me make a bigger advertisin' commitment to bludgeon me competition with. that monies can buy me kids thar braces. it would allow me wife to buy fancier protiens fer our evenin' meals. that monies can make the life 'o me family easier. *

in many, many ways, life here in america is a cut-throat game, me friend.

its true fer businesses.

its true fer individuals.

goodnight me friend, i have to to sleep now!

*waves*

- MeadHallPirate

*- i have no family 'o me own, mate, but fer the sake 'o me hypothetical, i thought framing things in this manner would make fer a more appealing stance.