Thread: FAA to expand access to civillian airspace for drones.

Originally Posted by Jefe

What is the practical difference between these drones, and remote controlled airplanes and helicopters, which have been enjoyed by hobbyists for decades now?

I used to fly a remote controlled airplane for shit and giggles and entertainment. Why is our gov't flying them? Entertainment/

Yet I have been worried about us moving closer and closer to a full blown police state, and our special cops even now dress like special ops that we use against our real enemies. The police forces are beginning to be indistinguishable from our military that is used to protect america from foreign enemies. The enemies today seem to be potentially the american people, who are not rolling in wealth.

Of course there are people, and educated people that think our gov't is gearing up for the inevitable mass chaos and rebellion of the average people who are being hurt as special interests chase more and more wealth. Something that has always been a problem in man's history here on earth. Since man has been unchanged inwardly, the battle between the rich controlling our lives and amassing greater and greater wealth, by buying gov't policy, is still and always will be a grave danger to mankind.

I think some of our leaders know very well what lies in our future, and it will take drones, militarized police, and electronic intelligence to keep the herd supressed, and to keep the special interests in their positions. Everything is pointing to that, if one just looks. But our peculiar ideological beliefs are by and large blinding most to what COULD be going on, right in front of our eyes. But, you distract the soiled masses with political tribalism, and you must keep the conflict constant, aided in large part by our corporate media, and you can pull all of this treason off, largely unnoticed. And if one does notice it, you discredit him as a loon, a nutjob, left or right, but mostly left, and corporate media makes it so. Yet this can only be pulled off by stupid voters, made stupid by the "us and them" mentality, filling consciouness with emotions, which guarantees no clarity is possible.

Originally Posted by lutherf

Let me get this straight....if ConEd were to purchase a drone to check its lines from Queens to Trenton rather than send crews out that would somehow or other translate into the potential for assassination of local Cub Scouts?

If CBS wanted to rent a drone so that they could easily televise a bicycle race that would somehow increase the potential that an innocent grandmother in Peoria got "disappeared" by a top secret drone mounted laser weapon?

Methinks you're just a wee bit off your rocker on this.

I do not deny that there ARE legit uses for drones. There are also, however, very dubious uses for them. There are obviously no regulations regarding the use of these drones. Could ConEd not also use their drones to spy on employees who they may think are about to blow the whistle on some kind of internal accounting shenanigans? Could that drone rented by CBS not also be equipped with other invasive listening technology serve a dual purpose while having a legit reason to be in a certain place at a certain time? This isn't paranoia this is skepticism.

I just want to know what the rules are. It seems there are none.

Could that drone accidentally crash into the whistle-blower?

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

I do not deny that there ARE legit uses for drones. There are also, however, very dubious uses for them. There are obviously no regulations regarding the use of these drones. Could ConEd not also use their drones to spy on employees who they may think are about to blow the whistle on some kind of internal accounting shenanigans? Could that drone rented by CBS not also be equipped with other invasive listening technology serve a dual purpose while having a legit reason to be in a certain place at a certain time? This isn't paranoia this is skepticism.

I just want to know what the rules are. It seems there are none.

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

Could that drone accidentally crash into the whistle-blower?

Could the paring knife in your kitchen drawer be used to stab your annoying next door neighbor?

It could. But the statistics seem to suggest that something far safer for the attacker would be used instead.

People are really paranoid. There are private aircraft up in the sky now and oddly enough we aren't spied on constantly.

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

I do not deny that there ARE legit uses for drones. There are also, however, very dubious uses for them. There are obviously no regulations regarding the use of these drones. Could ConEd not also use their drones to spy on employees who they may think are about to blow the whistle on some kind of internal accounting shenanigans? Could that drone rented by CBS not also be equipped with other invasive listening technology serve a dual purpose while having a legit reason to be in a certain place at a certain time? This isn't paranoia this is skepticism.

I just want to know what the rules are. It seems there are none.

I ask again: why so concerned about a very expensive system that no one has deployed, when very cheap means of surveillance are in use virtually everywhere, with no laws, no regulations, and no oversight?

I drive 9 miles to work each day. I pass no less than 15 state operated cameras. They are covered under no law. The police can and do monitor them in real time... or they can go back to look at the coverage after the fact. All w/o court approval. I cannot go more than 2 blocks from my house w/o showing up on one. I can't go anywhere other than twenty other houses w/o showing up on one. I'm sure it's the same for most people here.

Originally Posted by tsquare

You guys are so fucking funny I can hardly type this from laughing so hard.

We have government and privately owned CCTV cameras at almost 50 foot spacing most everywhere, we have car license plate scanners and interlocked state databases so that any local cop can tell if you owe back taxes as you sit for a red light. We have GPS tracking on your cell phone that might well be traceable by the government w/o warrant, but is traceable by the phone company. We have TiVo tracking which commercials you watch, and how many times. The Cable company can also tell you just what you watched and for how long. Both are months away from targeting you for ads and programing. And none of this is yet topped by Google that tracks where you go on-line and tailors ads for you to see on site they sell advertizing to (like this one, USPOL) so that even if you go to a site w/o using Google to search for it, they still know. (cookies don't you know)

And all of that was done w/o a single law being passed. Not one.

And none of that bothers you... but the very thought of drones and we should "Be frightened. Be very frightened"

too fucking funny.

When they install lasers or rockets on the CCTV cameras ... I'll be more concerned.

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

It certainly doesn't make it right.

I also believe the border patrol is the only domestic group which currently uses them:

More Predator drones fly U.S.-Mexico border - The Washington Post



And up until now, they have been primarily used in areas with little or no population and planes. Even so, a drone almost crashed into a residential area in 2006.





It is also not very economically feasible and makes a very small dent in its intended purpose:





It sounds like more governmental "corporate welfare" to me.

You can tell this is a well designed system when there's no interlock or safety in the program to prevent the engine from being turned off accidentally. I wonder if the weapons have the same safety package? Oops I fucked up sir ... I hit the weapons release by accident and just bombed a neighborhood full of civilians. Well done.

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

What are they doing with these drones? What regulations are there to insure they are not using them for illicit purposes? What are these drones equipped with? Weapons? What kind of optics? Thermal, X-ray, Infrared? How far can they zoom in? Video quality? What kind of listening devices are they using? Scanners? Laser mics? What certifications are required for one to be a drone operator? How many hours of flight time? Simulator time? Who decides who gets to own drones and who does not? Are these privately owned drones going to be registered? Will the public have the right to demand what their operational status is? The nature of their uses? How many will be in flight at one time? Who decides when they can be used to spy on civilians? Assassinate civilians? What we be the criteria used to determine that a civilian be monitored by drones?

Just a few questions off the top of my head.

I'm sure if they had regulations ... they would follow them as opposed to abusing them and doing what they damn well please.

Originally Posted by Speakeasy

I don't think anyone said that none of that bothers them. Also, it's certainly possible to reaching a tipping point where one puts their foot down and says "enough is enough".

You should have figured out that you put your foot down when they start down the path you've finally figured out they're on. Not when they're getting close to the end of it.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Yet I have been worried about us moving closer and closer to a full blown police state, and our special cops even now dress like special ops that we use against our real enemies. The police forces are beginning to be indistinguishable from our military that is used to protect america from foreign enemies. The enemies today seem to be potentially the american people, who are not rolling in wealth.

The September 11, 2001 terror attacks on the United States resulted in the murder of just under 3000 people.

That's nothing to sneeze at and I certainly think it justifies every effort to find, fix, and destroy terrorists globally wherever they happen to be.

With that in mind, however, consider that in America that many people are murdered just about every two or three months (depending on the year).

I just went and tallied up a few statistics from the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

Between 2000 and 2010 (inclusive) there were 177,756 murders in America completly unrelated to terrorism, or about 15,5000 per year. During that same period there were 1,007,311 rapes and 9,431,322 agravated assaults. Note that I didn't even bother to consider all the other major crimes: robbery, larceny, burgalry, and theft.

So I have to ask you, as an ordinary, average American citizen who should I really consider "the enemy"?

It is infinately more likely that if I am the victim of a violent person it's going to be at the hands of a fellow American citizen as opposed to a foreign terrorist.

If "police forces are beginning to be indistinguishable from our military that is used to protect America from foreign enemies", maybe it's because domestic criminals have proven to be a far greater threat to the lives and physical security of average American than are foreign enemies could even hope to be?

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

U.S. News - Pilots worry about safety of allowing domestic drones in US skies



Note privately owned drones.....PRIVATELY owned drones.....What the flyin' fuck?

The iron curtain of corporate fascism is falling, people. Wake the fuck up!

If Obama signs this....it will mean that there really is no one out there truly fighting for the average American. Stock up on supplies, people. If this passes it is time to seriously consider removing the entire federal government from power by any and all means necessary. It will be proof that it is seriously compromised and that democracy will find itself in it's death bed. I do not care what side of the political fence you are on....FOCUS....this shit is wrong. Spam the White House email with grave concerns about this.

THIS PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE ALREADY. They are all criminals.....all of them!

I am convinced that the US is heading into a police state not to dissimilar to the police state in the movie 1984. Don't know if we're going to make it all the way there, but we're headed there.

Kramer