Thread: "Accidental" shooting in church

Originally Posted by wooyarn

Any unintentional discharge of a weapon is not only negligent but pretty damn stupid. Don't really matter which way its pointing.

I carry a .45 everyday, if I shoot someone in the gut they will die. If I shoot someone in the shin there's a
95+% chance that they will die.

I'll disagree that a shin shot results in 95% mortality and to suggest so borders on the ridiculous ... with modern medicine. Pointing of the weapon is critical to preventing accidents. We have years of experience with weapons and accidental discharges and that's the reason for intelligent guidelines in their handling. Weapons are designed to kill ... yet kill intended targets.

Originally Posted by jviehe

This guy took the gun to church to defend himself.

Was he defending himself in a closet? Should the young lady have taken a gun to shoot him in the closet? Is a church or a gun show ... to garner sales or display your gun? Ummm Is the permit he held a "display" permit or a "concealed" permit?

Originally Posted by jviehe

We dont actually know some of that, or the motivation behind it.

We don't even know that "he didn't intend to discharge it".

Originally Posted by Sluggo

That is all wishful thinking at best. For one, there are plenty of "gun free" zones and there is plenty of crime in them. Second, fewer guns in circulation is not realistic. We have been through that lesson many times now (for many different reasons applied to more than just guns.) If there is demand, someone will handle it with supply. Third, we do not have unrestricted gun ownership now. Not even close. Idiots will always be out there, your foolish solution is to punish those that are not willing to break the law is at best a vain effort.

An example that might be relevant ... prohibition. We know how that worked out. At a minimum you could expect very high gun prices on the black market.

Originally Posted by jviehe

And Im saying that if we want guns to be common, then we have to accept that accidents are going to happen. And that wont need to resort to severe punishment when they do.

Nobody is calling for guns to be more common. And nobody is suggesting the right to own a gun ... relieves you from responsibility ... anymore then a drunk driver.

Originally Posted by michael h

I'll disagree that a shin shot results in 95% mortality and to suggest so borders on the ridiculous ... with modern medicine. Pointing of the weapon is critical to preventing accidents. We have years of experience with weapons and accidental discharges and that's the reason for intelligent guidelines in their handling. Weapons are designed to kill ... yet kill intended targets.

Have you ever seen what a .45 does to a body. Take a hit in the shin and your leg is gone, you can very easily bleed to death or die from shock.

Originally Posted by wooyarn

Have you ever seen what a .45 does to a body. Take a hit in the shin and your leg is gone, you can very easily bleed to death or die from shock.

Yes you could die ... yet we are talking about an accidental discharge ... just like being shot in the head ... you get medical care. In other circumstances of malicious intent you might be left without medical care.

Originally Posted by Texan

You're not acting like it. An idiot needlessly shoots someone and you think he's not responsible. You act like the gun has a mind of it's own.

I think hes responsible. I dont think hes criminally negligent. Thats exactlly what I said from the start. People are going to have to get used to accidents.

Originally Posted by Porras

But pointing it at the wall is an unsafe direction. Had he been pointing the weapon toward the floor and accidentally shot and killed someone in the basement, I could see the merit in writing it off as an accident with no legal repercussions. Any other direction besides a target makes it negligence though, and a penalty should come with that. I'm not even saying it should be a felony, just some legal penalty.

I've been shooting since I was ten years old. In nineteen years I've had exactly one accidental discharge. The weapon was pointed down range at the time, and if it hadn't been, it would have been pointed toward the ground. I've never pointed a weapon in any other direction without first inspecting the chamber to make sure there were no bullets in the weapon.

And unsafe direction is differnt than "something you dont intend to shoot'.

Originally Posted by michael h

Nobody is calling for guns to be more common. And nobody is suggesting the right to own a gun ... relieves you from responsibility ... anymore then a drunk driver.

I think everyone here wants them to be more common. People should own guns to defend themselves. The more people who can use guns to defend themselves the better. But in pursuance of that, people are going to forget the rules. People become complacent. Drunk driving is different though. You know something is going to happen. This is more akin to forgetting to turn your lights on. Had he been drunk and handling the weapon, then itd be the same.

Originally Posted by michael h

We don't even know that "he didn't intend to discharge it".

Exactly.

Originally Posted by jviehe

Exactly.

Exactly ... he may have intended to discharge it killing her for an unknown reason. The "accidental" discharge may not have been an accident.

Originally Posted by michael h

Yes you could die ... yet we are talking about an accidental discharge ... just like being shot in the head ... you get medical care. In other circumstances of malicious intent you might be left without medical care.

IMO there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. Your gun should be in the holster with safety on, unless your on a firing line or your gonna shoot someone or something. To do otherwise is just plain stupid. This idiot in the church should face some jail time, pay the girls medical fees and never be allowed to carry a gun again.
And why did he think he needed to carry a gun to church?