Thread: Here is why banning guns wont work

Gloria: Do you know that sixty percent of all murders in America are caused by guns?
Archie Bunker: Would it make you feel any better, little girl, if they was pushed out of windows?

Won't work at what?

At ending murders entirely?...no, I guess it won't...Are you honestly suggesting that anyone has ever suggested it would? Talk about straw man arguments.

Obviously trying to ban guns in a country where people are allowed to buy them and the culture around them is as it is in the US is not going to work.
I live in the UK and we don't have the same ideas about gun ownership and the debate here is completely different. The only people here with guns are criminals and maybe a few farmers or hunters who are extremely strictly licensed here and there is no large scale debate that gun ownership should be more widespread and if anything I think public opinion here would like tighter gun control.
This doesn't stop crime any more than the fact that knives are also illegal and carry hefty sentences just for carrying them as crime will always happen.

I don't think trying to compare the UK and US crime statistics is relevant to gun control measures in the US as the culture of gun ownership is so completely different.

Originally Posted by PeterUK75

Obviously trying to ban guns in a country where people are allowed to buy them and the culture around them is as it is in the US is not going to work.
I live in the UK and we don't have the same ideas about gun ownership and the debate here is completely different. The only people here with guns are criminals and maybe a few farmers or hunters who are extremely strictly licensed here and there is no large scale debate that gun ownership should be more widespread and if anything I think public opinion here would like tighter gun control.
This doesn't stop crime any more than the fact that knives are also illegal and carry hefty sentences just for carrying them as crime will always happen.

I don't think trying to compare the UK and US crime statistics is relevant to gun control measures in the US as the culture of gun ownership is so completely different.

I am pointing out that human beings will find a way to harm others no matter what. You ban guns, fine, they use knives, you ban knives they use cricket bats. You ban bats they use hammers, ban hammers they use screwdrivers.

I am showing that even though the United Kingdom has banned guns, it will not stop crime as other ways to kill and harm will be used.

In that the analogy and comments hold up.

Originally Posted by Wlessard

I am pointing out that human beings will find a way to harm others no matter what.

And that is very true! Also, men will find a way to defend themselves, no matter what. Therefore, it is not technology creation or restriction thereof but the heart of man

Who exactly is it that`s trying to ban guns? The only time I`ve ever heard the words gun and confiscation used in the same sentence was from the gun lobby. Would they be trying to sell more guns? Nah,couldn`t be.

I know it is important to you that certain words are not used so you can then claim certain words are not being used. Janet Reno point blank said that the goal was prohibition.

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of firearms is the goal."
- Janet Reno, December 10, 1993 [Associated Press]

Originally Posted by PeterUK75

...
This doesn't stop crime any more than the fact that knives are also illegal and carry hefty sentences just for carrying them as crime will always happen.

I don't think trying to compare the UK and US crime statistics is relevant to gun control measures in the US as the culture of gun ownership is so completely different.

Why not make comparissons between two modern multii-cultural english speaking nations?

Originally Posted by August West

Who exactly is it that`s trying to ban guns? The only time I`ve ever heard the words gun and confiscation used in the same sentence was from the gun lobby. Would they be trying to sell more guns? Nah,couldn`t be.

Perhaps you've heard of Diane Feinstein, the prominent Democratic Senator from California? She's on record supporting confiscation of all privately owned handguns.

So what would you advocate? You repeatedly say you favor gun control, but are apparently frightened to specify what controls you want.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Why not make comparissons between two modern multii-cultural english speaking nations?

The debate about guns in the UK is so different than the US that it makes the language angle redundant.
My fairly middle of the road (for the UK anyway) opinion s on gun control would make me ultra left wing in the US as I think our gun laws are just about right and just need a few tweaks for the sport pistol team who are not allowed to train here due to a ban on all handguns.
Adding guns to a society like the UK where I would imagine 99% of people have never used a gun unless they are in the armed forces or Police would be pretty disastrous as would the US suddenly banning most firearms.
I could be wrong but for me the two cultures are chalk and cheese on this issue.

I am glad you added in the tweak for clay pigeon shooting. It is bad enough your tax revenues are off shored to Switzerland in the UK without your sports teams being given the same. But hey, you reap the rewards you sow.

You are slightly wrong about the statistics though. I grew up in the UK and outside of the time i spent in boarding school i lived in a house with several guns in them, and even after the handgun ban of 97, we still had more than one shotgun, 2 rifles and several several air guns.

I never really cared to use one of them, nor did i ever need to but i did go to a range a couple times and i felt fine having them in the house. As you said though, criminals still have them in the UK so if you're happy to let them remain armed whilst you cower away, that is up to you.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Why not make comparissons between two modern multii-cultural english speaking nations?

The US is certainly not multicultural in the sense Europe and the UK is. In fact, other than border security the US is actually an English speaking nation in more than just name only, which is all the UK is these days.

But he is correct when he says the cultures are totally different. You can't compare the two. Everything the US now stands for is frowned upon by Britain, and every fight for individual freedom that every American has is unheard of for British people. They (heck i should say we as i am still a Brit, too) long gave that up and sacrificed our liberties and gun rights is just a part of that.

There is no comparison to be made and Peter is absolutely spot on when he says it is chalk and cheese. For different reasons, we agree. But for me it is that ultimately Britain has become a nation of cowards and the US hasn't quite gotten there just yet.

I'm obviously going to disagree about the coward and UK being English in name only bits but I agree we are now very different. I think most Americans would be surprised just how different we are on many things. I will say we seem much less suspicious of our government and although we are just as good at routing out corruption we just go about it differently somehow with less drama maybe and for want of any better explanation less fox news style hype and bombast.
I could be completely wrong though.