A Question For Supporters Of Government Run Healthcare... - Page 6 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

fishjoel · #76 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

FYI, our military ain't the greatest. We are just funded the best. Given equal resources and personnel I would think many other countries could show us a thing or two. Israel comes to mind...

jviehe · #77 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

I could almost claim NASA is a well run govt program, but then you see 500mil dollar probe launches. Im pretty sure private enterprise could do it cheaper if there was any reason to go to the moon (there isnt).

Steve · #78 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishjoel

FYI, our military ain't the greatest. We are just funded the best. Given equal resources and personnel I would think many other countries could show us a thing or two. Israel comes to mind...

Isel is probably the only country that has a military anywhere close to that of the United States...

Rude Boy · #79 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

This whole thread is a straw man. Both sides are participating in this argument that isn't even proposed, much less grounded in reality. I've tried on two occassions to bring it to a realistic debate, but both sides continue to argue about something that isn't proposed and doesn't exist (outside of the VA).

"Government run" health care. Outside of the VA, it doesn't exist, and isn't being proposed.

drgoodtrips · #80 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

This whole thread is a straw man. Both sides are participating in this argument that isn't even proposed, much less grounded in reality. I've tried on two occassions to bring it to a realistic debate, but both sides continue to argue about something that isn't proposed and doesn't exist (outside of the VA).

"Government run" health care. Outside of the VA, it doesn't exist, and isn't being proposed.

I, for one, was participating in the discussion as an exercise. I'm perfectly aware that Obama has not proposed government run healthcare. But, hypothetical discussions interest me. Those are often where the most interesting ideas arise.

fishjoel · #81 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

This whole thread is a straw man. Both sides are participating in this argument that isn't even proposed, much less grounded in reality. I've tried on two occassions to bring it to a realistic debate, but both sides continue to argue about something that isn't proposed and doesn't exist (outside of the VA).

"Government run" health care. Outside of the VA, it doesn't exist, and isn't being proposed.

Not yet...you gotta start somewhere.

Steve · #82 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

This whole thread is a straw man. Both sides are participating in this argument that isn't even proposed, much less grounded in reality. I've tried on two occassions to bring it to a realistic debate, but both sides continue to argue about something that isn't proposed and doesn't exist (outside of the VA).

"Government run" health care. Outside of the VA, it doesn't exist, and isn't being proposed.

That should come as no great surprise, seeing as you and your opinions are among the most easily and often dismissed on this forum.

Frankly, it's pretty fucking stupid to participate in a thread you don't like...

Rude Boy · #83 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

I, for one, was participating in the discussion as an exercise. I'm perfectly aware that Obama has not proposed government run healthcare. But, hypothetical discussions interest me. Those are often where the most interesting ideas arise.

Fair enough. You make a good point, though I want to be sure that people understand that this isn't political reality.

Rude Boy · #84 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

That should come as no great surprise, seeing as you and your opinions are among the most easily and often dismissed on this forum.

Frankly, it's pretty fucking stupid to participate in a thread you don't like...

Really? My "opinions" are so "easily and often dismissed on this forum?" Can you quantify that, or more importantly, do you see the irony in such a pronouncement?

If you weren't so serious, I would mistake you for a comedian.

Andrewl · #85 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

In the specific region i exist in canada the government is able to run the public school system, the fire and police depts, ambulane service, public transportation, etc.. they used to run the water and power just as good as the private sector does now, for less cost. In fact, they used to run Air Canada far far better than the private sector does now. They also run the healthcare system. They do not run any of these things perfectly, but io have never seen a private sector corporation run anything perfectly either.

Andrew

John Drake · #86 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Isel is probably the only country that has a military anywhere close to that of the United States...

It should be, we've largely paid for it.

Knute · #87 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrewl

In the specific region i exist in canada the government is able to run the public school system, the fire and police depts, ambulane service, public transportation, etc.. they used to run the water and power just as good as the private sector does now, for less cost. In fact, they used to run Air Canada far far better than the private sector does now. They also run the healthcare system. They do not run any of these things perfectly, but io have never seen a private sector corporation run anything perfectly either.

Andrew

This is an excellent point. Businessmen dont know shit either. Look at what were considered the best and brightest of corporations like GE, BofA ,GM FedEx etc etc. They managed to screw up their businesses rather well themselves.

Chocobot · #88 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

Not to pick at nits, but by that metric, eugenics is a good thing. So was Enron.

Eugenics? Not very complex really. In fact its a rather simplistic attempt to order the human genome.

It comes nowhere near healthcare and justice, you know this already.

Chocobot · #89 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

And that's where I get off the universal coverage train.

People who work and contribute?

Fine.

People who try their hardest to secure employment, but can't?

Fine.

The able-bodied guy who lives down the street from me who has little interest in ever getting a job?

No, fuck him, and fuck everyone like him.

More than anything else, it's those people, and those in similar situations, who are the ones who make it impossible for me to accept universal coverage as a good idea. Take them out of the mix, and I would actually have very few problems with the idea...

Fine. Leave at that point if you wish. I see a bigger picture.

Many recognise the benefits of treating all as best one can regardless of economic status. Moreover, both our countries take care to encourage people into work. The US has done this very successfully, despite your misgivings about some man down the street who in the US is and would be a tiny minority.

Your question was a strawman to the wider debate about healthcare.

Despite that, suitable examples have been given so far without counter.

Chocobot · #90 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Isel is probably the only country that has a military anywhere close to that of the United States...

Ridiculous assertion. A number of forces stand equal to or above Isreal in terms of ability, as the recent debacle in lebanon has shown.

Isreal has no better forces than most modern nations. Those like Germany that choose not to have strong forces have made deliberate choices.

The UK for one, currently fighting the good fight in Afghan as we speak, as has been helping rebuild countries across the world for years now rather than building settlements and postponing peace negotiations.

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