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Health Care A forum for discussing the US health care debate and proposals. All threads on this subject shall be posted here.

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
dblack's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia PA
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Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleTed View Post
I cannot believe that because states require liability insurance on automobiles, that's used to justify having the Imperial Federal government require health insurance.

Get real.
It's not a sound argument in the slightest, but has a vague sound of legitimacy to the lay-idiot. That's why I was so disgusted to hear Obama use it. He's not an idiot. From him, it's not a just a weak argument, it's a fucking lie.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
John Drake's Avatar
Vice President
The Last Eisenhower Republican

 
Member Since: May 2008
Location: America
Posts: 6,495

   
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Liability insurance is, like I mentioned, inherently different from insurance covering your own self only.

Again, just stop forcing hospitals to treat people and stop subsidizing it. Then you won't pay for it.
OK fine. When people start dying in the street then maybe the sane part of the populace will finally get fed up with the plutocrats and do something about them.

It won't be pretty, though, but it will be just.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,857

Georgia_state    
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblack View Post
It's not a sound argument in the slightest, but has a vague sound of legitimacy to the lay-idiot. That's why I was so disgusted to hear Obama use it. He's not an idiot. From him, it's not a just a weak argument, it's a fucking lie.
Careful, he and/or his minions will call you out for that.

LOL
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,857

Georgia_state    
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
OK fine. When people start dying in the street then maybe the sane part of the populace will finally get fed up with the plutocrats and do something about them.

It won't be pretty, though, but it will be just.
Oddly, as a mere lad, I remember charity hospitals all over the country. All those church named hospitals were charity hospitals. What happened? Well, the Feds got involved.

Their number one worse contribution to health care was removing the charity deduction for in-kind services for doctors.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Citizen

 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2

United_States     Missouri

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

What about homeowners insurance? If you have a loan on your house the bank mandates you must have homeowners insurance. But there's no mandate to have insurance on your kids??? Come on. All insurance is for the "What If". You may never need it, but if you do, you're sure glad you have it. Is it fair to force the people that have insurance to pay for those who don't? It's time for everyone to start being responsible for themselves and stop relying on someone else.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,995

   
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

I rarely agree with Obama--but on this one I agree with 100%. In fact, this was Hillary's plan--that Obama continually stuck his nose up at--during the primary season. Now he has done a flip-flop.

Yes--fine the crap out of people that do not have medical insurance.

Not only that but if one of the un-insured shows up at one of our emergency rooms--go ahead & fix them then add the cost of that medical care back to their TAX LIABILITIY--with interest payable at standard rates--& I don't give a hoot if it takes them the rest of their lives to pay back that bill.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,331

United_States     Ohio

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Car insurance is liability insurance in case you hit someone elses car. Health insurance is for yourself. It's a huge difference.

However, some states don't require auto insurance (I agree with that philosophy).

edit: Should we all be required to have liability health insurance in case we just have to whoop some ass? lol, that's the only way I see a relation with this example.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Doctor Who's Avatar
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Location: Charlotte
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United_States     North_Carolina

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
What about homeowners insurance? If you have a loan on your house the bank mandates you must have homeowners insurance. But there's no mandate to have insurance on your kids??? Come on. All insurance is for the "What If". You may never need it, but if you do, you're sure glad you have it. Is it fair to force the people that have insurance to pay for those who don't? It's time for everyone to start being responsible for themselves and stop relying on someone else.
The homeowners insurance is required by the lender because the lender has a stake in your house and stand to lose financially if you don't insure it. Don't want to pay HOI, pay cash for your house. The same for auto insurance. You hit somebody, they stand to lose financially if you don't have insurance. Don't want to pay for auto insurance, don't drive on public streets. If someone gets sick, no one loses financially if they have no insurance but themselves. But a mandate would require you to get insurance simply because you exist. Yeah, that's going to fly with the SCOTUS. There is no comparison between auto insurance and HOI and it shows that either Obama is ignorant for comparing the two or he believes there are enough ignorant people out there that do not undrestand the difference. I believe it is a little of both.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,331

United_States     Ohio

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who View Post
The homeowners insurance is required by the lender because the lender has a stake in your house and stand to lose financially if you don't insure it. Don't want to pay HOI, pay cash for your house. The same for auto insurance. You hit somebody, they stand to lose financially if you don't have insurance. Don't want to pay for auto insurance, don't drive on public streets. If someone gets sick, no one loses financially if they have no insurance but themselves. But a mandate would require you to get insurance simply because you exist. Yeah, that's going to fly with the SCOTUS. There is no comparison between auto insurance and HOI and it shows that either Obama is ignorant for comparing the two or he believes there are enough ignorant people out there that do not undrestand the difference. I believe it is a little of both.

Judging by the posts here, it's obviously a little of both.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,995

   
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
Car insurance is liability insurance in case you hit someone elses car. Health insurance is for yourself. It's a huge difference.

However, some states don't require auto insurance (I agree with that philosophy).

edit: Should we all be required to have liability health insurance in case we just have to whoop some ass? lol, that's the only way I see a relation with this example.

People without health insurance DO DAMAGE TO ALL OF US. We have to pay for them.

It is in fact--the exact same thing as driving a car wrecklessly & doing damage to another person or property.

Again--the issue as stated last night was addressed to those who could afford health insurance but "choose" not to get it--probably because the look of the car they drive are more important to them.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,331

United_States     Ohio

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
People without health insurance DO DAMAGE TO ALL OF US. We have to pay for them.

It is in fact--the exact same thing as driving a car wrecklessly & doing damage to another person or property.

Again--the issue as stated last night was addressed to those who could afford health insurance but "choose" not to get it--probably because the look of the car they drive are more important to them.

We don't have to pay for them. We've set up a system where we decided that we would pay for them. We really don't have to do anything.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Q of U's Avatar
Governor
dorkie

 
Member Since: Feb 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 493

United_States     Texas

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Fit View Post
We already pay taxes for Medicare. We are talking about people, who, through little to no fault of their own, cannot afford medical insurance.... only to be "fined" (not taxed) for that inability. The very idea of it is ludicrous. Once the door is opened for criminal, un-constitutional laws like this one, then comes the imposition of "fines" for all kinds of creative citations. If your over weight, have an ongoing medical condition, if you Rock climb, bungie jump, mountain bike, if you go out between the hours of 2 to 5am, Whatever absurd reason they can think of. Then all they have to do is convince you that it's "right" and "Justified"......It's as John Lennon said: If you try to walk, they tax your feet.
I agree with your post except you have to give credit where credit is due George Harrison wrote Taxman
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
chassisman's Avatar
Secretary of State
Right Wing Extremist

 
Member Since: May 2004
Location: bible belt
Posts: 12,029

United_States     Texas

Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Who in the fuck wakes up in the AM and says to themself.........."y'know, I think my life would be better if the goverment became a bigger part of it" ???? Evidently a lot, since there are multi millionsof liberals who are willing to change America for the illegals, the slackers, the unmotivated, and those who just plain want to spend their earnings elsewhere. The president who says, screw what the majority of Americans want, this is what we are going with is the cherry on top.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Vice President
Last of the Timelords

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 7,474

United_States    
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
zara
Ive just been watching a program where a load of Americans were going mad over the British NHS. They called it 'evil' and talked a load of scary stuff about 'death panels' and other very dramatic stuff. They were incredibably insulting about it. It got me wondering how much do Americans pay for medical insurance? - i.e for the same coverage that the average Brit would get from the NHS?

I worked in England last year - I earned pretty much the national average.
Britian spends 8.3% of its GDP on the NHS. I was paying about a fifth of my salary on tax. This works out that my healthcare was costing me about £33 a month.

I was wondering how much the average american would pay in insurance costs?
Your premise is wrong, we do not pay more for the same coverage brits get from NHS, most americans get much better service in the area of healthcare than the average brit gets from NHS.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Nov 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,763

   
Re: Can't afford health insurance? $3800.00 fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
What about homeowners insurance? If you have a loan on your house the bank mandates you must have homeowners insurance. But there's no mandate to have insurance on your kids??? Come on. All insurance is for the "What If". You may never need it, but if you do, you're sure glad you have it. Is it fair to force the people that have insurance to pay for those who don't? It's time for everyone to start being responsible for themselves and stop relying on someone else.
Owning a car or a home is a privlege not a right. Existing is a constitutional right and forcing people to have insurance simply because they exist violates that right. The link below explains it pretty well.

Hot Air Blog Archive Can Congress force me to buy health insurance?
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