This isn't a public option unless you're a millionaire. Better lock my ass up too, but you better bring a shitload of guys to do it.

This is exactly the kind of shit I was afraid of when government run health care popped up as a discussion...

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He's come to save the day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVFdAJRVm94

screw that, they not locking my ass up without a fight.

anyone that would choose to go to jail without a fight is not only making themselves a government bitch, but they are also shitting on their kids, grandkids and etc future.

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

IT IS TIME for Americans to take back the country and start a new government.

Yes, let's force them to enter into nonprofitable contracts.

You do understand that the purpose of an insurance company is to make a profit, or charge more than they pay out (on average), right? If they don't accept people with preexisting conditions, that leads me to believe that they do not consider that practice to be profitable.

But alright, let's say you force them to do it. Well, to maintain a profit, they'll just set the premium at a ridiculously high amount. What then? Oh right, have the government set their price as well as their terms. Then it becomes more or less a government-run insurance company.

I notice a rather glaring absence of some of the more ardent libs in this thread....

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Science flies you to the moon.

Religion flies you into buildings.

Because at the end of the day the numbers won’t work. If you demand that the ins. Co’s cover everyone, despite anything, where is the money going to come from to offset that? 15K for a plan? And how is that cheaper than what we have now?

They chickened out, the mandated coverage penalty was watered way down, why? Because they know that folks will pay the penalty as the cheaper option and the Ins. Co’s will eventually have to raise premiums so high the gov. will win, they will vilify them and go exactly where they wanted to go all along, tax dollars used in a gov. managed plan.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

That’s why this is all a hustle. Its simply NOT Universal health care in that context. They cannot make the numbers work covering everyone. So let me ask a simple question; it appears that if they have to leave 10-15 million uncovered because the cost would be to high, how long until the cost becomes to high to cover the ones they say they will?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

The question is, should the government have the right to force people to buy insurance or face jail or fines?

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Sic Semper Tyrannis



[/b]the left is always wrong[b[



http://www.myspace.com/swoop187muzic

Be patient, some totally owned muthafuckah will show up sooner or later to defend this Unamerican oppressive shit.

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I needs government help to live.
I must be a liberal.

Charging sky-high prices for the pre-existing condition would be discrimination based upon a person's health, something that I have said should be illegal. To make it work, insurance companies would have to raise everyone's rates a couple of percent to make up the difference (not everyone has a pre-existing condition, and insurance companies cover people who get conditions all the time). Since rates are going up 10-15% annually, I don't really think raising them once more by 3% as a one-time bump to stop screwing people with pre-existing conditions is really a fundamental flaw in doing this. You all make it sound like companies would have to increase their rates by 10-fold, something that is ridiculously untrue. Pre-existing conditions are almost always something like hypertension, pregnancy, plantars warts, all things that insurance companies cover all the time anyway. Instead of charging a family $1,200 per month this year and $1375 next year, insurance companies would charge that family $1225 per month this year and $1400 per month next year if they suddenly had to stop denying people entry based upon pre-existing conditions. That's hardly the difference that is going to break the camel's back .... its the $1,200 per month portion that is the financial killer.

As far as sending executives to prison for failing to comply -- that is part of the solution to corporations being people fiasco. If corporations have the right to free speech and other constitutional guarantees because they're people, then the citizens have the right to jail corporations when they break the law, JUST LIKE PEOPLE. You can't jail Pharmacare exactly but you sure as hell can jail its management when it breaks the law. Breaking the law for corporations wouldn't be just a simple financial option like it is now, it would become very much a rarity.

Forcing 5 million tax paying Americans into jail would be the best thing that ever happened to America. We'd finally wise up.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

and charging somone higher premiumas for their poor driving record...whats up with that?




and how does this plan address the COST of the MEDICAL procedures?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Why? If society wants these expenses covered, shouldn't the government pay for it, rather than forcing private industry to do it? From a moral and economic standpoint this is absolutely no different from the government mandating auto insurers allow people to purchase insurace to cover the cost of their car repairs AFTER they get into an accident.

At the very least, they should be allowed to issue new policies which exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions for an initial period (to minimize the incentive to wait until you are actually sick to get insurance)

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"It's a good feeling to shoot a bad guy. Something you democrats would never understand. Americans are homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys!"

----Denny Crane

Everyone has a choice in how they drive. 12 speeding tickets weren't caused by acts of god. Hypertension, diabetes, cancer aren't things we really have any control over.

It doesn't. There is no way to address the cost of medical procedures without constraining medical development. Medical breakthroughs cost money. If we want to stop making medical breakthroughs, then we can work on driving costs down, but the rest of the world will leave us in the dust healthwise.

The only other way to address the cost to the end consumer is through government subsidy, but since that subsidy is paid for through taxes, the end consumer is still paying for it.

The government mandates that auto manufacturers have airbags, seatbelts and anti-lock brakes, even for people who have never been in a car accident in their entire life.

Somehow auto manufacturers (at least Honda, Toyota, Ford) have lived through these horribly unfair requirements and offer products that people eagerly buy.

Yeah, they pass the cost of these requirements on to the consumer. Given politicians are either oblivious to, or dishonestly ignore the fact that much of the current increases in health insurance costs are because of requirements and mandates they have already foisted upon the industry, how receptive do you think they would be to the resulting increase in costs if we require them to pay for the care of pre-existing conditions? What would happen to auto insurance if they required covereage of auto repairs for accidents which already happened before you bought the policy? Come on, even for a liberal the answer to that should be a no brainer!

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"It's a good feeling to shoot a bad guy. Something you democrats would never understand. Americans are homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys!"

----Denny Crane