Thread: Another example typifying the nightmare that is goverment run healthcare

Originally Posted by sinebar

Hot Air Blog Archive Another tale of government-run health-care success

I feel sorry for this poor guy from Canada. I wonder if Obama would send a loved one to Canada for critical medical treatment. After all he is so proud of how good the Canadian government run healthcare system is. I hear stories like this all the time about Canadian healthcare but rarely do I ever hear anything possitive.

We pay less and live longer than Americans.

Two major positive outcomes of our system.

Individual examples of health care horror stories exist on both sides of the US Canada border. Individually they prove nothing.

Originally Posted by RDK

We pay less and live longer than Americans.

Two major positive outcomes of our system.

Individual examples of health care horror stories exist on both sides of the US Canada border. Individually they prove nothing.

Where will ya'll go for crucial, timely care if the USA goes socialist? You must know that one of the reasons your HC has been able to survive is due to your proximity with your friends here in the Lower 48. If we pick up the hammer and sickle as well, how does your economy survive in the long run? This isn't just about health care, you know. This dumb-ass bill will change the way business is done and put an enormous amount of control in Washington. Right in the hands of those least likely to have a clue what the right thing to do is and even less likely to be able to do anything about it. Rep. Massa is typical for our Congress I'm afraid. They seem slow as individuals and absolutely imbecilic as a group. How do these people keep getting elected?

This is just more fodder, more red meat to put fear in the hearts of that particular crowd of people in America who have never had gov't run health care, and who can't properly define socialism.

Public or private, both systems will have their limitations. But in terms of the well-being of an overall society and cost-efficiency, a system that is lead by the people instead of the insurance companies is a better system. It costs less, citizens in those countries live longer, are less fat, and don't have anywhere near the rate of diabetes that Americans have.

What the OP omits from you, dear readers, is that the writer of that particular article for the Toronto Sun is an in-law to Kent Pankow.

Kent Pankow lives in Alberta, affectionately called the "Texas" of Canada. In Canada, just like in the US, there are federal models of systems, but then individual provinces get to have their own rights and can shape federal initiatives fairly broadly. For instance, Avastin is the expensive cancer drug that Kent needs to take; it stagnates the growth of the three tumors in his brain.

Under the Liberal gov't of Paul Martin in 2005, the country approved Avastin to be used for all cancer patients.

However, it is up to individual provinces to determine what they will cover or not. Most of 'em do, but Alberta doesn't cover Avastin injections for brain cancer, because, well, it's expensive and the outcomes with people with one brain tumor is bleak, let alone 3 simultaneous brain tumors as in Kent's case.

What the story leaves out here is that since the Conservative gov't took power in early 2006, they have neglected to cover new and life-saving treatments for the people of Canada, because well, there is a war going on and the economy is bad, and the conservatives aren't for socialized medicine anyway and would prefer it if Kent simply had totally private coverage instead, which would free up the gov't to cut taxes as well as basic health care services.

It must be noted that Alberta has the most conservative gov't in the country; for nearly 3 generations, the Conservative Party has run that province. They pay the least amount in taxes, and get yearly kickbacks in the form of checks from oil profits. What suffers under that model are gov't run services, and the ability to simply come out and cover Kent for his Avastin injections because it's the right thing to do.

One thing I congratulate this thread for doing is reminding us all that health care must be a basic human right to a free and prosperous people in nation's such as Canada and the US.

Under a Liberal gov't in Canada, we would have probably never heard of Kent Pankow, because before this administration, the previous one was at least covering new kinds of treatment at basically the same time that the US was, in order to co-ordinate and serve people better. But under the Conservative gov't, keeping health care services up-to-date, strong, and efficient is just not one of their priorities. Like America, Canadian conservatives rail against how bad gov't can be, but then they go out and wish to be elected in order to prove to us just how bad gov't truly can be.

I feel bad for Kent Pankow. As of 2008, he had lived about 7 years cancer-free. All of his surgeries to that point had been conducted in Canada. It was the Cross Cancer Institute in Alberta that insisted on having him come in for an MRI (free of charge in Canada, and a procedure Kent did not have to wait more than a week for in his case). It was that test that showed that Kent had 3 new tumors in his brain, one located in a particular spot in the centre of his brain that most surgeons around the world don't even have the expertise to operate on. That's where the Mayo Clinic in the US pops up, because for the kind of cranial surgery Kent needs, the Mayo Clinic down there is ranked #1 in the world.

So Kent would have probably ended up down there anyhow, just as many Americans land in Canada for specific procedures that are being performed probably much closer to their homes than by travelling further in their own country, like that Sarah Palin story about how the family came to Canada in the 60's because the biggest town was in a different country, but closer to the next biggest American city. Not the health care systems on that one, just basic geography and common sense.

I've been following Kent's story for a few months now, ever since it appeared on CTV and Global in Canada.

You can punch up Kent Pankow on google and it'll take you to his website where you can read everything you ever wanted to know about him and his family. And btw, their grievance is with the province of Alberta, because the health minister there was the one who denied coverage of his Avastin injections but put the blame on the feds in order to pass the buck and save provincial costs.

As we speak, nearly 50 million Americans don't even have basic health coverage. Had Kent been one of those 50 million, he would have surely died nearly a decade ago. And what's worse, had he been one of the many who had coverage, the co-payments, surcharges and deductibles, not to mention the outrageous costs of Avastin injection treatments in the US would have bankrupted him and his family for sure. The very thing the Pankow family is standing up for as Canadian citizens is universal care in every corner of the country. They aren't arguing for state's rights in this matter, but on the universal mandate that exists as a federal initiative.

Kent's keepin' on, and his friends and family have donated all the money he needs. Kent will not go bankrupt, fortunately. But his life is in the balance, and it was wrong of the provincial gov't to not cover his treatments, especially when you consider that the province of Alberta's finances are strong and stable.

Whether public or private, decisions that could affect the outcome of your life should not be placed in anyone else's hands but yours and your family's. Conservatives love to cry about "Death Panels" now, but they seem to forget that the insurance companies in their country are doing that job for the entire nation, and making hundreds of billions off of it, instead of doing the right thing, the humane thing, the moral thing, and covering everyone universally.

I have a tendency to be flippant but out of respect for Mr. Pankow and anyone else suffering from disease or sickness I'll make this post sarcasm and impudent free. I'm certainly glad to hear the man is getting his medicine. Too often I think the real issue or problem is lost in the battle over some political issue. Much like the Elian/Cuba kerfuffle was used by both sides for political effect or scoring and the boy is now lost to freedom because of it. But I digress.

I'm still a little surprised to hear some people making the insurance companies out to be the bad guys and this new HC bill will somehow put them in their place and lower costs. This notion is inaccurate. The insurance companies(who largely wrote the bill, btw) will be getting a tremendous boon. HC costs will, of course, go up because their will be a lot more people competing for the services of limited health professionals. It's easy to make more widgets but not so easy to educate Doctors. Eco 101: Demand up; supply down-prices rise. The liberal knee jerk reaction no doubt is to enforce price controls. We've tried this before with disastrous results. Nixon's biggest failure. Ok, 2nd biggest.

Putting that aside my biggest objection is the increase in the role of government. They already have too much power. I hear you on the conservative leadership in Alberta screwing everything up. I won't even disagree because I don't live there and I don't know. Here's the thing. They were given that power(to screw things up) by the people of Alberta(or Canada; I'm not sure).

If folks had to buy their own insurance and with full disclosure and instant spreading of info to keep them honest things would be much better. Are people forced to get health insurance in Canada? Are are they more honest and call it a tax? Another thing that bothers me greatly is the deviousness of my own government and their thug-like tactics to make themselves more powerful. It makes me angry.

Originally Posted by sinebar

Hot Air Blog Archive Another tale of government-run health-care success

I feel sorry for this poor guy from Canada. I wonder if Obama would send a loved one to Canada for critical medical treatment. After all he is so proud of how good the Canadian government run healthcare system is. I hear stories like this all the time about Canadian healthcare but rarely do I ever hear anything possitive.

If you want to talk about the Canadian health care system, knock yourself out. But it has nothing to do with our health care reforms.

Obama is "so proud of how good the Canadian government run healthcare system is?" Really, I hadn't heard that. Can you provide the quote, and a source?

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

snip

One thing I congratulate this thread for doing is reminding us all that health care must be a basic human right to a free and prosperous people in nation's such as Canada and the US.

Sure health care is a basic right, just like the right to bear arms, free speech and freedom of religion. The government grants me the right to own a gun, but they do not provide me with an M-16 or a Colt revolver. They grant the freedom of speech, but they won't buy me a newspaper. I have the basic human right to worship as I choose, but the same people who insist that part of the fruits of my labor pay for someone else's health care would shout quite loudly if their taxes went to fund building a church for me.

Let's suppose that I was a diabetic and needed insulin on a daily basis and couldn't afford it. I decide that I really should have access to free insulin, so I load my gun (that by rights, taxpayers should have bought for me?) and head to the corner convenience store and rob them of enough money to purchase my medication.
I am taking the fruits of the convenience store's owner to pay for my health care. Wrong, illegal, selfish, right? But, when the government takes the fruits of your labor to pay for my health care, you're fine with that.

What you and your side of the political spectrum just don’t understand is this is enough:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

However, it is up to individual provinces to determine what they will cover or not.

That right there is enough to send me into a fit. Neither I nor my fellow conservatives want government, any government, anywhere close to our healthcare choices.

It doesn’t matter to us if it’s a liberal government or conservative…

Kent Pankow had to leave the country to get care. If my insurance denied the coverage, I could:

A) fight them over it… including a nasty PR battle (yeah since they still have to sell insurance this is bad for them)
B) pay for the treatment w/o them (and then fight them some more)

Seems as though you have already lost that ‘right’ in Canada.

Originally Posted by RDK

We pay less and live longer than Americans.

Two major positive outcomes of our system.

Individual examples of health care horror stories exist on both sides of the US Canada border. Individually they prove nothing.

Lets compare "tax freedom days". USA =April 13th, Canada= June 6th.
Costs less, eh?

Tax Freedom Day Video: We are Never Really Free | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

Originally Posted by RDK

We pay less and live longer than Americans.

Two major positive outcomes of our system.

Individual examples of health care horror stories exist on both sides of the US Canada border. Individually they prove nothing.

No you don't that is a lie.

Originally Posted by sinebar

No you don't that is a lie.

3. Policy on the use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc.:

"Liar", "lie", "lying" or similar expressions have become a popular means of baiting recently. The Moderators have received a lot of complaints about that. Until now, the use of those terms wasn't regarded as a violation of the forum rules. However, we have come to the conclusion, that this policy has encouraged some posters to use these terms as a loophole for baiting. Unfortunately, for the moderators it is impossible to decide in each case we see whether the calling of someone a liar is being raised as a real belief or is being used abusively. So from now on, the accusation of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. So please do not call another poster a liar from now on. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" seem to be absolutely sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

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Hmmmmmm.

Originally Posted by sinebar

No you don't that is a lie.

United States: 38th
Canada: 11th.

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by sinebar

[url"=http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/10/another-tale-of-government-run-health-care-success/]Hot Air Blog Archive Another tale of government-run health-care success[/url]

I feel sorry for this poor guy from Canada. I wonder if Obama would send a loved one to Canada for critical medical treatment. After all he is so proud of how good the Canadian government run healthcare system is. I hear stories like this all the time about Canadian healthcare but rarely do I ever hear anything possitive.

Here are some facts. The US is ranked 37th for health care. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Canada is ranked 30th.

The US spends more on health care than any other country yet we are ranked only 2 spots above Cuba which is a backward poor totalitarian communist country that spends 1/4 of what we spend.

The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy. http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html]Countries of the World - immigration, geography, economy, government, history, religion, climate, travel, maps, flags

Here is another fact. Medical tourism is growing. More and more Americans are going overseas for medical care because better quality and better prices.

Over the last few years, a new trend in the healthcare industry known as Medical Tourism, is gaining popularity among highly industrialized countries like the United States. Varying reports containing medical tourism statistics put the number of American patients seeking healthcare abroad between 500,000 to 750,000 in 2007. This is a steady increase from the previous year, which medical experts believed as much as 200,000 to half a million Americans traveled out of the country for medical procedures.

Medical Tourism Statistics & Facts. Info about Health Care Abroad.

The GOP pretends to be for free market capitalism. OK GOP put you money where your mouth is and allow and invite the Japanese and the Europeans to the US to set up hospitals and clinics. Of course we know that the US medical industrial complex would never allow that because if there is one thing corporatists hate is true competition.

Another thing they could do is require that medicare, medicaid and private insurance pay for medical tourism. Health care in India is 10 cent on the dollar.

If you are a Fox viewer you may not be used to facts but try not to let them make you too nervous. You might even learn to like them.

Originally Posted by Tanngrisnir3

United States: 38th
Canada: 11th.

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you cite real world numbers you fail to understand that in the world where Reagan balanced the budget, where Bush brought us unparalleled prosperity, Canadians actually pay twice what we do, and only live to be 35.