Thread: Paul Ryan, ObamaCare, and Numbers that Exist in Nature...

So the party of "no" is going to try to rescind health care. I must have missed something but I haven't yet seen what it is they're proposing to put up in its place. Oh wait that's right, when they dominated Congress for 12 years they didn't do anything to improve health care.

I have no problem with any party saying a policy is no good and trying to work to improve it, but this is merely an attempt by the GOP to tear something down, with nothing to replafce it. I suspect what they're doing is deliberately putting up a number of bills knowing (and hoping) they won't succeed, so they can then say in 2012 "see, we tried to do something but the Dems blocked us." What we see now is a classic case of an opposition party now being in power but still acting like they're in opposition. They want to oppose, not govern. There's a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Garandimal

This aught to embarrass a few Liberal voters.


YouTube

Paul Ryan slices and dices Obamacare.


Your Conservative Tax-Dollars and Vote at Work.

Sic'em...

Oh gosh, where to start. Why even bother. The second sentence out of his mouth was a megaton lie. It went downhill from there. Too bad.

But, would you like to watch the Democratic Reps rip the Republicans? Those youtube videos are out there too.

Originally Posted by noahath

So the party of "no" is going to try to rescind health care. I must have missed something but I haven't yet seen what it is they're proposing to put up in its place. Oh wait that's right, when they dominated Congress for 12 years they didn't do anything to improve health care.

I have no problem with any party saying a policy is no good and trying to work to improve it, but this is merely an attempt by the GOP to tear something down, with nothing to replafce it. I suspect what they're doing is deliberately putting up a number of bills knowing (and hoping) they won't succeed, so they can then say in 2012 "see, we tried to do something but the Dems blocked us." What we see now is a classic case of an opposition party now being in power but still acting like they're in opposition. They want to oppose, not govern. There's a huge difference.

Kinda harsh, ...and somewhat antiquated.

Don't make the mistake of confusing the current Conservative Congress... with the country-club Repubelican Bushsonian Statists of old.

They may be, ...but they have yet to prove it.


In the mean time...

The first step is to bring the facts and truth to light. ("...sunlight is the best disinfectant...")

Then vote to repeal OdingaCare. (done)

Then advance replacement healthcare Bills along with spending Bills devoid of Dingell-Barry Care funding. (in process)


Seems to be working pretty well so far...

...for the first week.

Originally Posted by noahath

So the party of "no" is going to try to rescind health care. I must have missed something but I haven't yet seen what it is they're proposing to put up in its place. Oh wait that's right, when they dominated Congress for 12 years they didn't do anything to improve health care.

Health care is not the Constitutional responsibility of Congress. They recognize the problem with health care began with government interfering during the New Deal. The solution, their solution is not reduce government interference, specifically repeal the prohibition of interstate insurance plans. This will reduce administrative costs from say small, medium large plans (3) x 50 states = 150 plans to administer to merely 3 plans.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Health care is not the Constitutional responsibility of Congress. They recognize the problem with health care began with government interfering during the New Deal. The solution, their solution is not reduce government interference, specifically repeal the prohibition of interstate insurance plans. This will reduce administrative costs from say small, medium large plans (3) x 50 states = 150 plans to administer to merely 3 plans.

The govt is involved in a lot of things that are not the constitutiopnal responsibility of Congress, but they don't seem to have a problem with that. I would have though that the health of taxpayers would be a priority for Congress, given that if taxpayers aren't well enough to work then they will be an added burden to the social security system, and will not provide income (through taxes) to the govt. Like I said earlier, the GOP have yet to offer a single proposal of what they would do in place of what exists now. Do they wish to abolish health care altogether? I doubt it (although I'm also certain there are some who would), however we don't know for certain as they haven't presented anything. Like I also said earlier, at some point the GOP House is actually going to have to start governing, instead of just saying no.

I think the "powerball" malpractice lawsuit plaintiffs and their trial lawyers are going to take a swift one in the crotch as well. (and I don't mean that in a good way)

Blocking Tort Reform was a big whore for Dingell-Barry Care...

...now advancing it is a Win/Win.

He starts out by questioning whether reform will create jobs.

HELLO! You give 30 million people--that's thirty MILLION people health insurance who haven't had it and you question whether it will create jobs? Are you serious? 30 million people who have been putting off all those doctors visits suddenly have insurance and you don't think that will create jobs for doctors and nurses and office staff? Is he serious? And that doesn't even count the Americans who have been putting off retirement because they have pre-existing conditions and couldn't quit their jobs or they'd lose their health insurance. Now they can retire and open spots for those in the unemployment lines. This isn't exactly rocket science.

He just doesn't seem to me to be a very bright fellow.

He says Republicans should be judged by their actions. Well, last time they had to power to actually do something, they sat on their asses, letting 50 million people go without insurance while the health care industry bankrupted America, while they busied themselves by passing one tax cut after another for them and their rich friends. Now that they're essentially powerless, they waste time with a toothless vote for "principle."

What a yawner.

Then he just repeated the accounting lies that we've been shooting down here in this forum for the last week or so. I mean, he even repeats the "doc fix" lie--you know, the yearly exercise Congress goes through to adjust Medicare payments to doctors. That happens every year and has nothing to do with health care reform. And yet Paul Ryan includes that as a supposed "cost" of reform.
Then he makes the dishonest 6-year benefits/10 year tax falsehood. I pointed out the fallacy of that argument here.

What a liar. What a bald-faced liar and anyone who has any understanding of the issue whatsoever knows that. Yeah, I found his unsourced anecdote at the end really convincing. :rolleyes: I'm sure it never happened. See? That's the problem when you just lie out of hand.

But show me I'm wrong. Begin by explaining how including the "doc fix" in the cost of reform is honest.

Waiting...

Originally Posted by jpn

HELLO! You give 30 million people--that's thirty MILLION people health insurance who haven't had it and you question whether it will create jobs? Are you serious? 30 million people who have been putting off all those doctors visits suddenly have insurance and you don't think that will create jobs for doctors and nurses and office staff? Is he serious?

He just doesn't seem to me to be a very bright fellow.

It depends how you look at. I dare say that a large number of those people who previously couldn't access health care would be the poorer members of society ... and they tend to vote Democrat, so why should the GOP support something that does little for their voters? I think that's what it essentially comes down to.

Originally Posted by noahath

The govt is involved in a lot of things that are not the constitutiopnal responsibility of Congress, but they don't seem to have a problem with that. I would have though that the health of taxpayers would be a priority for Congress, given that if taxpayers aren't well enough to work then they will be an added burden to the social security system, and will not provide income (through taxes) to the govt. Like I said earlier, the GOP have yet to offer a single proposal of what they would do in place of what exists now. Do they wish to abolish health care altogether? I doubt it (although I'm also certain there are some who would), however we don't know for certain as they haven't presented anything. Like I also said earlier, at some point the GOP House is actually going to have to start governing, instead of just saying no.

This is the Nanny State argument.


Tyranny “for the Good” of Its Victims


It is not the Constitutional argument.

When it comes to individual Freedom and Liberty...?

You have the Right to starve to death, ...if you don't freeze to death in Winter first, ...if that is your free Will, and the product of your labor.

The Government owes you, personally, nothing.

Personal failure is supposed to be the beginning of the next, more enlightened, great enterprise...

...or die and get out of the way.

Free markets, unencumbered by Government interference, will compete for Healthcare dollars.

The successful ones will thrive, ...the unsuccessful ones will fail.


Wait for the new Conservative Healthcare legislation... it's still the first week.

If the republicans really cared we would get the same insurance they get, or to reduce the deficit they could take a pay cut, or 100% retirement for life, or stop getting free printing and binding, or reduce staffs that have increased in funding 8-10% since 2008, or stop getting free food and booze, stop getting free travel.
But you will never see these braggarts and briganders of the middle class do anything to eek through this crisis.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

If the republicans really cared we would get the same insurance they get, or to reduce the deficit they could take a pay cut, or 100% retirement for life, or stop getting free printing and binding, or reduce staffs that have increased in funding 8-10% since 2008, or stop getting free food and booze, stop getting free travel.
But you will never see these braggarts and briganders of the middle class do anything to eek through this crisis.

"Never" is a big word.

There are already Congressmen who are rejecting their Government plan in solidarity.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an adjustment in the Government policies as well.

At least you won't have to pass the Bill to find out what's in it...

Originally Posted by Garandimal

"Never" is a big word.

There are already Congressmen who are rejecting their Government plan in solidarity.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an adjustment in the Government policies as well.

At least you won't have to pass the Bill to find out what's in it...

The majority of all Congressmen vote without reading a bill. That is why they have staff members. It just like an attorney. Most of the time they don't know your name or what your case is about, that is for the legal secretary or paralegal to know.

Along w/ the facts that Rep. Ryan brings to light...

...Congressional Mensa candidates on the Left keep dusting off their borrowed copies of the Constitution and come up with originalist interpretations like this... (they must use them as beer coasters)


Rep. John Lewis Cites ‘Pursuit of Happiness’ as Justification for Health Care Mandate

Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) believes the Constitution justifies Obamacare’s mandate that people must buy health insurance. According to him, the Constitution’s reference to the “pursuit of happiness” specifically justifies that mandate. There’s just one problem, the pursuit of happiness isn’t in the Constitution.

“Well, when you start off with the Preamble of the Constitution, you talk about the pursuit of happiness,” Lews told CNS News regarding the mandate’s justification. ”You go to the 14th Amendment–it’s equal protection under the law and we have not repealed the 14th Amendment. People have a right to have health care. It’s not a privilege but a right.”

I wouldn't let this guy operate a soft ice-cream machine...

...why would you let him run your Country...?