Thread: Ryan-Wyden Heathcare Plan

At least there is one Dem and a Pub that is together on this. The Dems will rip at anything that reforms Medicare, as they don't want it touched. Period. All the Dems want to do is raise taxes. Ryan at least has one Democrat supporter that he has teamed up with.

Yeah, it has a lot of common sense reforms that shouldnt be too objectionable, but since it tries to move away from universal healthcare, Dems wont go for it.

The attacks on Republicans for their despicable actions during the health care debate are wholly justified. They LIED. They never had any intention of working with Democrats on a bill. It would have made Obama look good. They wanted to hand him his 'Waterloo'

Ryan's stand alone plan for Medicare is a nightmare for seniors. Even Newt called it radical "right-wing social engineering"

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

The attacks on Republicans for their despicable actions during the health care debate are wholly justified. They LIED. They never had any intention of working with Democrats on a bill. It would have made Obama look good. They wanted to hand him his 'Waterloo'

To have any chance of believing that, you'd have to forget the meeting the GOP leadership had with Obama in Jan 2009, going there to work with the young president, they were greeted with: "I won" and "Don't listen to Rush Limbaugh"

Allow me to remind you:

The top congressional leaders from both parties gathered at the White House for a working discussion over the shape and size of President Barack Obama’s economic stimulus plan. The meeting was designed to promote bipartisanship.

But Obama showed that in an ideological debate, he’s not averse to using a jab.

Challenged by one Republican senator over the contents of the package, the new president, according to participants, replied: “I won.”

Obama to GOP: ‘I Won’ - Washington Wire - WSJ

So much for history... where are we today?

The good folks at Resurgent Republic send along these poll results, and I think what’s interesting is that in light of all the contrary evidence, so many Democrats insist that Obama is more interested in “working” than campaigning.

Shot: ”President Obama has not met with Republican leaders in Congress for 145 days, choosing instead to visit 20 states for 34 policy addresses and 34 campaign speeches.” (Richard Wolf, “Observers: Obama has been keeping far afield of Congress,” USA Today, (12/16/11)

Chaser: By 53 to 37 percent, Independents believe President Obama is more interested in campaigning against Republicans in Congress to win reelection. (Resurgent Republic, National Survey of Registered Voters, 10/30 – 11/2/11)

At this point in his presidency, do you think Barack Obama is more interested in working with Republicans in Congress to get things done, or campaigning against Republicans in Congress to win reelection?

The American voter doesn't believe you either...

Independents Don’t Think Obama Is Interested in Working With GOP - By Jim Geraghty - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online

You know Democrats are on the wrong side of an issue when even The New York Times acknowledges in a front page story that the party needs to kill something for political reasons.

In 2010, many Republicans won House seats — and the support of older voters — by arguing that President Obama’s health care law would damage Medicare. Democrats are hoping to retake the House by arguing that Mr. Ryan and other House Republicans are pushing for the privatization of Medicare, which they say could greatly increase costs for beneficiaries.

The new Wyden-Ryan proposal, by blurring the contrast between the parties on this issue, could make it more difficult for Democrats to win the argument.

Lawmakers Offer Bipartisan Plan to Overhaul Medicare - Dec. 14, 2011

Originally Posted by tsquare

To have any chance of believing that, you'd have to forget the meeting the GOP leadership had with Obama in Jan 2009, going there to work with the young president, they were greeted with: "I won" and "Don't listen to Rush Limbaugh"

Allow me to remind you:



Obama to GOP: ‘I Won’ - Washington Wire - WSJ

So much for history... where are we today?





The American voter doesn't believe you either...

Independents Don’t Think Obama Is Interested in Working With GOP - By Jim Geraghty - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online

You mean the meeting then President -elect Obama had with the House GOP, where leaders gave members an edict that they would not support the stimulus? Or the LIE you just posted? President Obama didn't say 'I won", Eric Cantor said it.

“We just have a difference here, and I’m president,” Mr. Obama said to Mr. Cantor, according to Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, who was at the meeting.

Mr. Emanuel said that Mr. Obama was being lighthearted and that lawmakers of both parties had laughed.

Mr. Cantor, in an interview later, had a similar recollection. He said the president had told him, “You’re correct, there’s a philosophical difference, but I won, so we’re going to prevail on that.”

“He was very straightforward,” Mr. Cantor added. “There was no disrespect, but it was very matter-of-fact.”

Obama Presses for Quick Jolt to the Economy - NYTimes.com

BTW, did you even READ David Frum's Waterloo? The former Bush speechwriter was fired by the right wing think tank American Enterprise Institute for telling the truth.

Wyden-Ryan is a joke.

First, it doesn't kick in until 2022.

For you to believe in this plan, you have to get past this line, "Private plans will compete directly with traditional
Medicare based on their ability to provide quality coverage at an affordable lower cost."

For almost every other sentence in this plan, it brings up a ton of questions.

Like, how could a private insurer possibly offer a cheaper plan to anyone in a demographic whose bodies are, let's face it, falling apart?

Respiratory illnesses, heart issues, high blood pressure, arthritis, cancer, and the list goes on.

It's a plan where just about every other sentence contains some kind of wishful-thinking at it's core, based on some misnomer.

The plan would not save money.

Private insurers aren't just going to start magically offering cheap plans after more than doubling health care costs on the American public over the past decade.

Get real.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Like, how could a private insurer possibly offer a cheaper plan to anyone in a demographic whose bodies are, let's face it, falling apart?

It's called competition .. you know, unlike the government that inhibits competition, drives up prices and excels at inefficiencies.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

It's a plan where just about every other sentence contains some kind of wishful-thinking at it's core, based on some misnomer.

The plan would not save money.

Sounds kind of like Obamacare to me.

Originally Posted by jotathought

It's called competition .. you know, unlike the government that inhibits competition, drives up prices and excels at inefficiencies.

Except in the real world it doesn't work.... if you had taken a course in economics, you might have a clue why, here's a clue, "incentives".


There are zero incentives for a private insurance company to reduce medical costs.

Private plans cannot compete with Medicare, private Medicare D plans are subsidized, they need about a $1000/yr subsidy to be "competitive" with traditional Medicare.
Because Medicare does not have underwriting costs, advertising costs, sales costs, executive bonuses or any of the other stuff that makes private insurance cost 30% more than government insurance.

Originally Posted by goober

Except in the real world it doesn't work.... if you had taken a course in economics, you might have a clue why, here's a clue, "incentives".


There are zero incentives for a private insurance company to reduce medical costs.

Wow Goober, that is done everyday by insurance companies. They are always fighting cost. Are you serious to claim that all insurance companies pay out willy nilley every bill that comes in for medical cost.

As for competing with medicare, think again. Obama told us there is 500 billion of waste and fraud in Medicare alone. Are you telling me a private company could not do a better job than our wasteful government that allows at every turn.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Wow Goober, that is done everyday by insurance companies. They are always fighting cost. Are you serious to claim that all insurance companies pay out willy nilley every bill that comes in for medical cost.

As for competing with medicare, think again. Obama told us there is 500 billion of waste and fraud in Medicare alone. Are you telling me a private company could not do a better job than our wasteful government that allows at every turn.

You're right there is probably 500bn if not more in waste and fraud. But, it's the DRs, Hospitals, and private insurance compaines that commet this fraud with bogus billing.

I've got a simple plan for Medicare: just raise premiums to reflect how much the program is costing. Let seniors by cheaper plans that provide less if they feel Medicare premiums are too high to afford.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Wow Goober, that is done everyday by insurance companies. They are always fighting cost. Are you serious to claim that all insurance companies pay out willy nilley every bill that comes in for medical cost.

As for competing with medicare, think again. Obama told us there is 500 billion of waste and fraud in Medicare alone. Are you telling me a private company could not do a better job than our wasteful government that allows at every turn.

Insurance companies try to avoid payouts, they don't try to limit costs. If insurance companies are so good at limiting costs, why do we have the highest costs in the world, when we have the lowest involvement by government in the world, and the most privatized medical market in the world?

I'm saying that even with that waste, Medicare is cheaper than if it was private, that is what the actual experience is.
And yes, I'm saying that there are things the government can do better than a private company, and Medicare is one of them.