Thread: Being too antiseptic in our lives leads to sicker people

Ok, sounds reasonable and you may be right but is there anything with some sort of data to back this up?

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Ok, sounds reasonable and you may be right but is there anything with some sort of data to back this up?

Just observational. It is what I see in workplaces and what my wife sees.

The rushing to the ER over every little ailment rather than taking care of it at home is obvious if you spend some time.

How much would companies lose if someone did an actual study and proved that my observations were correct?

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Ok, sounds reasonable and you may be right but is there anything with some sort of data to back this up?

I'm sure there's actual data out there but like Wlessard, I've also observed it. MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is one of the staphs that is prevalent in hospitals and nursing homes and in the past, was just another staph infection treated with antibiotics. Over time, it became resistant to the drugs and can now be very deadly. There are several factors that caused this strain of bacteria to become resistant with one being overuse of antibiotics and another being that many people only take their antibiotics until they feel better, sometimes leaving half of the supply in the bottle "in case" they need it again. The problem is that taking only half a regimen of the drugs doesn't always eliminate the problem, it only weakens the bacteria and once the drug is stopped, the bacteria can get stronger and more resistant.
Overuse of antibiotics will often kill the "good" bacteria in our bodies...I actually had this happen after being on a Z-pack (Azithromycin) twice in about 5 weeks. It killed the bacteria needed to digest and absorb food properly and ended up losing about 10 lbs. before going back to the doctor and taking an antifungal drug for two weeks.
Overuse of antibacterial agents such as soap and hand sanitizer is also a bad thing because again, it doesn't discriminate against "good" bacteria so it can actually weaken our immune system. Exposure to the a little of the "bad" bacteria helps build up resistance and is the premise behind live vaccines. If we never build up that resistance, then we end up getting sick because our body lacks the ability to fight off the bad stuff. Since most of the antibacterial agents don't kill 100% of the bacteria, it allows it to grow stronger...it's like giving it a half of a regimen of antibiotics, the surviving bacteria comes back more resistant.
A little side note...one of the best ways to fight seasonal allergies is to purchase honey from a beekeeper in your area, the closer to your house, the better. The reason is that there is a little pollen from the local plants in the honey and taken daily, helps desensitize the body to the allergens. I told my dad about this years ago because he suffered from sinusitis every time the flowers and trees went into bloom and since using a teaspoon of honey daily in his coffee, he no longer has problems when the ragweed and other irritating plants bloom.

This may sound crude but kids need to be able to eat some dirt. They need to be allowed to go outside and play sports and that involves playing in muddy fields and sometime just being covered in the stuff. If germs were as bad as the adverts for antiseptic house cleaners made out I'm unsure how humanity made it out of the first millennium without everyone spending decades with colds and flue.

Originally Posted by PeterUK75

This may sound crude but kids need to be able to eat some dirt. They need to be allowed to go outside and play sports and that involves playing in muddy fields and sometime just being covered in the stuff. If germs were as bad as the adverts for antiseptic house cleaners made out I'm unsure how humanity made it out of the first millennium without everyone spending decades with colds and flue.

Crude or not, it's the truth. My kids were very healthy when they were young and remain healthy as adults...not because I was a bad housekeeper (I'm not) but because I didn't panic every time they dropped the pacifier or got dirty playing.

I don't think this is so much a matter of weaker immune systems due to antiseptic lifestyles. When I was a kid (I'm a good deal younger than you) there was no concern about getting dirty. I even threw out dead mice and squirrels without any kind of concern for what may be on them. I never saw much difference from others in my age group. The fear of germs seems to be more recent. Of course, that's not to say that the average person isn't a bigger sissy these days.

Originally Posted by Wlessard

Just observational. It is what I see in workplaces and what my wife sees.

The rushing to the ER over every little ailment rather than taking care of it at home is obvious if you spend some time.

How much would companies lose if someone did an actual study and proved that my observations were correct?

Unsure but the study should come first, the conclusion based on the results. Not the other way around. Again though, I tend to agree with the theory as it sounds reasonable. I have similar feelings about the levels of medicine in use today, more to the point the laundry list of side effects that tends to accompany just about all drugs on the market today. It would be funny if it were not so sad that most ads today pimping some new drug seems to have to give up at least a 1/3rd of the ad to list out all the potential problems using the new drug. Expected and "unlikely yet minor" side effects, other more dangerous side effects, etc. Perhaps that has something to do with your theory here on dependence.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I'm sure there's actual data out there but like Wlessard, I've also observed it. MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is one of the staphs that is prevalent in hospitals and nursing homes and in the past, was just another staph infection treated with antibiotics. Over time, it became resistant to the drugs and can now be very deadly. There are several factors that caused this strain of bacteria to become resistant with one being overuse of antibiotics and another being that many people only take their antibiotics until they feel better, sometimes leaving half of the supply in the bottle "in case" they need it again. The problem is that taking only half a regimen of the drugs doesn't always eliminate the problem, it only weakens the bacteria and once the drug is stopped, the bacteria can get stronger and more resistant.
Overuse of antibiotics will often kill the "good" bacteria in our bodies...I actually had this happen after being on a Z-pack (Azithromycin) twice in about 5 weeks. It killed the bacteria needed to digest and absorb food properly and ended up losing about 10 lbs. before going back to the doctor and taking an antifungal drug for two weeks.
Overuse of antibacterial agents such as soap and hand sanitizer is also a bad thing because again, it doesn't discriminate against "good" bacteria so it can actually weaken our immune system. Exposure to the a little of the "bad" bacteria helps build up resistance and is the premise behind live vaccines. If we never build up that resistance, then we end up getting sick because our body lacks the ability to fight off the bad stuff. Since most of the antibacterial agents don't kill 100% of the bacteria, it allows it to grow stronger...it's like giving it a half of a regimen of antibiotics, the surviving bacteria comes back more resistant.
A little side note...one of the best ways to fight seasonal allergies is to purchase honey from a beekeeper in your area, the closer to your house, the better. The reason is that there is a little pollen from the local plants in the honey and taken daily, helps desensitize the body to the allergens. I told my dad about this years ago because he suffered from sinusitis every time the flowers and trees went into bloom and since using a teaspoon of honey daily in his coffee, he no longer has problems when the ragweed and other irritating plants bloom.

As I said to Wlessard, I tend to agree with the theory. Would like to see science back it up even though I doubt there will be much support the effort of science that may go against both the medical and pharmaceutical industries.

Both my grandpa's lived very long lives my Irish grandpa who drank and chewed tobacco lived to be 91 and my Welsh grandpa with diabetes never drank but did smoke a pipe lived to be 89. Neither of my parents lived as long passing away at 84 and 85. Longevity seems to run in my family but with all the improvements in healthcare people seem to be dying earlier rather than later.

The death rate remains the same as it always has, one person, one death. I think Heinlein said that.

I don't think a formal study is neccessary to support the conclusion---though it could lead to some insight about mechanisms and what not.

The evidence is overwhelming. There's a reason Mexicans can drink their water and Americans have to drink bottled water when on vacation there. It's because the native's immune systems have been challanged and the visitor's hasn't.

Originally Posted by darth omar

I don't think a formal study is neccessary to support the conclusion---though it could lead to some insight about mechanisms and what not.

The evidence is overwhelming. There's a reason Mexicans can drink their water and Americans have to drink bottled water when on vacation there. It's because the native's immune systems have been challanged and the visitor's hasn't.

Being a veteran of the sewage treatment industry I can attest to this. After breathing the air at treatment plants over several years I rarely get sick, and many of my colleagues have experienced this phenomenon as well.

Originally Posted by John Drake

The death rate remains the same as it always has, one person, one death. I think Heinlein said that.

You'll cause Actuarians to jump out the window with that thinking.