Thread: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I sleep just fine at night, thank you. Why? Because my conscience is clear. I'm able-bodied and work my ass off and don't wait for the government to give me a house, food and medical coverage. I have no problem with someone getting help when they truly need it but ironically, it's often those who need it the most who are turned down because they are the wrong color or have too many assets. Of course, I don't expect someone like you to be able to comprehend the difference between a hand out and a hand up....

And I assume you also make damn sure that you don't read about people, like the ones in my OP, who find themselves with no insurance through no fault of their own. Because if you did, then you'd have to admit that your proud stand is in fact morally craven. And who wants to do that?

Turns out the better a person does in life – at least when it comes to income – the less likely that person is to believe that government needs to do more to help the poor. Well, at least if this person is Republican or Republican-leaning.

Imagine that.

Originally Posted by kowalskil

Yes, medical help should be available to all. The problem is in details; how to accomplish this?

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)

Is this question really so hard? Almost every developed nation on the planet has come up with better solutions than the US. The thing that makes it so hard for Americans is that we refuse to admit that free enterprise just doesn't have a positive role to play when it comes to health insurance.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Most of them grew up in Queens and Nassau County so they were far more economically and politically savvy than I and certainly involved in one organization or another.
I grew up in Brooklyn, where people are only NOW becoming aware of what's REALLY going on between the parties.
I never had these conversations until a mere few years ago after I discovered Dice.
Now most of them are terrified to say anything before they think carefully first because they know I'm going to cross-examine them.
And by the way, being economically and politically SAVVY DOESN'T equate to doing anything GOOD for the US, it equates to doing what good for YOURSELF.

What was good for me was good for the communities and the US in addition to being good for me. Another BTW, what is good for Corporate America tends to be good for our entire society because when Corporate America is prospering and expanding they hire and keep productive workers who make them money.

Let's put it this way, when you first joined you posted that because of past exploitation it was "India's turn", regardless of merit.
Do you STILL hold by this position?

Boy did you screw that one up. I said, and I iterate, third world countries (India included) deserve that they have a right to their own employment revolution and the right to a decent standard of living especially since their resources were exploited by Europeans (To include Great Britain, France and Portugal) but mostly because as human beings they deserve that right as much as any human being anywhere else. Of course I still hold that position.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

But I think I fully understand the conservative consciousness.

Scary thought. I think it can be pretty accurately summarized with the following:

Conservatives choose their facts to fit their ideology.
Liberals choose their ideology to fit the facts.

(examples: NASA and every nationally-recognize scientific group on the planet must be lying about global warming. Tax cuts raise tax revenue. Economic stimulus doesn't stimulate. The world was created 10,000 years ago last Tuesday. The 2008 economic crisis was caused by too much government. Obama was born in Kenya. Government can't be the cheapest and best provider of health insurance. And so on. The effort to avoid seeing all the evidence to the contrary must be overwhelming. No wonder they tend to seem cranky and nasty all the time.)

Originally Posted by dnsmith

As a moderate democrat my observations are that most GOPers are closer to the center than most democrats.

OMG!

That's why I love this forum! It's GREAT entertainment!

Originally Posted by jpn

Scary thought. I think it can be pretty accurately summarized with the following:

Conservatives choose their facts to fit their ideology.

I have noticed as many of my fellow democrats on this forum do the same thing

Liberals choose their ideology to fit the facts.

You dreamer you

(examples: NASA and every nationally-recognize scientific group on the planet must be lying about global warming. Tax cuts raise tax revenue.

At a certain point on the curve they do.

Economic stimulus doesn't stimulate.

The last big one did less than it should have because the money was distributed to the wrong people, and it could have been done at almost no cost if the government had allowed the repatriation of profits being held overseas because of draconian taxes if brought home.

The world was created 10,000 years ago last Tuesday. The 2008 economic crisis was caused by too much government.

Partially because of government meddling in the housing market.

Obama was born in Kenya. Government can't be the cheapest and best provider of health insurance.

You are right, government cannot be the cheapest and best provider of health insurance.

And so on.)

Originally Posted by Wagner

A raise obviously isn't in this couple's best interest. It's better for them to turn down better opportunities and game the system, which is exactly what they're doing, but I shouldn't have to foot their bills when they're purposefully choosing not to work.

We have a system in which parents can't get or afford insurance because their child has a pre-existing condition. And you call trying to deal with that reality "gaming the system" and "choosing not to work."

Jesus H Christ.

It must be so weird to be a Republcan (shudders.)

Originally Posted by dnsmith

what is good for Corporate America tends to be good for our entire society because when Corporate America is prospering and expanding they hire and keep productive workers who make them money.

The US needs to reboot by having our small and mid sized businesses grow.
Of course, that's done by hiring illegals for the intense labor, bringing in visas for IT and off-shoring white collar work.
As far as the larger corps are concerned, they've left the building taking with them the protections of their ipso facto status as American entities.

Originally Posted by dnsmith

Boy did you screw that one up. I said, and I iterate, third world countries (India included) deserve that they have a right to their own employment revolution and the right to a decent standard of living especially since their resources were exploited by Europeans (To include Great Britain, France and Portugal) but mostly because as human beings they deserve that right as much as any human being anywhere else. Of course I still hold that position.

I guess my 52 year old memory is a tad superior to yours.
You said what you said and it was honest.

We don't send intense labor to India, we export our professional jobs to them and import them to take ours.
They don't deserve it if they can't produce anything for themselves after 40 years of handouts.
The one who actually deserve it are flocking like crazy to our shores and are unfortunately only a tiny fraction of the lackeys who come here to provide corps with cheap labor.

The Chinese actually deserve a strong economy as they actually make gadgets that work and they are rioting in the streets for higher wages.
That's right...they're risking having their heads blown off to become more Democratic.
I guess that comes off as a bit Liberal, actually wanting a chance at a better life by RAISING WAGES!
The nerve!
They aren't begging to take away our professional jobs as much as wanting their own nation to stand on its own feet.

Originally Posted by dnsmith

I have noticed as many of my fellow democrats on this forum do the same thingYou dreamer youAt a certain point on the curve they do.The last big one did less than it should have because the money was distributed to the wrong people, and it could have been done at almost no cost if the government had allowed the repatriation of profits being held overseas because of draconian taxes if brought home.Partially because of government meddling in the housing market.You are right, government cannot be the cheapest and best provider of health insurance.

Wow, a self-described "moderate Democrat" who just so happens to subscribe to every nonsensical right-wingnut talking point. But I'm sure that you really are a "moderate Democrat."

Originally Posted by jpn

Wow, a self-described "moderate Democrat" who just so happens to subscribe to every nonsensical right-wingnut talking point. But I'm sure you're really a "moderate Democrat."

As I posted yesterday, a retired Democrat with a pension = a Republican; well, sometimes.

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dns,
Just out of curiosity, how and why did you leave India?

Originally Posted by jpn

Wow, a self-described "moderate Democrat" who just so happens to subscribe to every nonsensical right-wingnut talking point. But I'm sure that you really are a "moderate Democrat."

Those are not right wing talking points. They are the same moderate democrat talking point we have been discussing since before the left wing nuts took over our party. That some conservatives choose to believe in the same thing is great. I personally believe that the majority of our country are moderates. The problem is the left wing nuts and the right wing nuts monopolize the political conversation.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

As I posted yesterday, a retired Democrat with a pension = a Republican; well, sometimes.

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dns,
Just out of curiosity, how and why did you leave India?

I left India after I had graduated from High school and spent some time traveling around SE Asia, to include Thailand, and French Indo-China (now Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) Be cause I was a US citizen it was necessary for me to get back before my 18th birthday - if you remember we had a draft back then. I went back to college, LSU specifically and started off studying sciences because I enjoyed them; Chemistry, Zoology until I had to pick a major. I went on to Business and studied economics, marketing, management, accounting; you know I'm sure, the stuff you need for a business degree.

The how was fun. I took a train from Lucknow in Uttar Pradesh to Bombay (Mumbai now) then a ship, the USS President Monroe. It took 31 days with stops all over on the way. I particularly like the stop In Alexandria, Egypt where I took a tour of the Pyramids and Sphinx (would like to take my wife but we are to old and fragile to travel like that any more. On to Italy where we stopped in Naples, Livorno, Genoa with a short hop to Marsailles, France then 11 days at sea to New York where I stayed a day with a cousin at 222 E 22nd St and a train to Louisiana. All in all a great trip for a 17 year old traveling alone. Even had a couple of sweeties on board. I was rationed to two beers a day because of my age, but didn't usually drink both of them.

Originally Posted by dnsmith

I left India after I had graduated from High school and spent some time traveling around SE Asia, to include Thailand, and French Indo-China (now Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) Be cause I was a US citizen it was necessary for me to get back before my 18th birthday - if you remember we had a draft back then. I went back to college, LSU specifically and started off studying sciences because I enjoyed them; Chemistry, Zoology until I had to pick a major. I went on to Business and studied economics, marketing, management, accounting; you know I'm sure, the stuff you need for a business degree.

The how was fun. I took a train from Lucknow in Uttar Pradesh to Bombay (Mumbai now) then a ship, the USS President Monroe. It took 31 days with stops all over on the way. I particularly like the stop In Alexandria, Egypt where I took a tour of the Pyramids and Sphinx (would like to take my wife but we are to old and fragile to travel like that any more. On to Italy where we stopped in Naples, Livorno, Genoa with a short hop to Marsailles, France then 11 days at sea to New York where I stayed a day with a cousin at 222 E 22nd St and a train to Louisiana. All in all a great trip for a 17 year old traveling alone. Even had a couple of sweeties on board. I was rationed to two beers a day because of my age, but didn't usually drink both of them.

I assume your parents were from the US.
Why did your parents move to India?