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Thread: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

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    New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us | TIME.com

    1. Routine Care, Unforgettable Bills
    When Sean Recchi, a 42-year-old from Lancaster, Ohio, was told last March that he had non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, his wife Stephanie knew she had to get him to MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. Stephanie’s father had been treated there 10 years earlier, and she and her family credited the doctors and nurses at MD Anderson with extending his life by at least eight years.

    Because Stephanie and her husband had recently started their own small technology business, they were unable to buy comprehensive health insurance. For $469 a month, or about 20% of their income, they had been able to get only a policy that covered just $2,000 per day of any hospital costs. “We don’t take that kind of discount insurance,” said the woman at MD Anderson when Stephanie called to make an appointment for Sean.

    Stephanie was then told by a billing clerk that the estimated cost of Sean’s visit — just to be examined for six days so a treatment plan could be devised — would be $48,900, due in advance. Stephanie got her mother to write her a check. “You do anything you can in a situation like that,” she says. The Recchis flew to Houston, leaving Stephanie’s mother to care for their two teenage children.

    About a week later, Stephanie had to ask her mother for $35,000 more so Sean could begin the treatment the doctors had decided was urgent. His condition had worsened rapidly since he had arrived in Houston. He was “sweating and shaking with chills and pains,” Stephanie recalls. “He had a large mass in his chest that was … growing. He was panicked.”

    Nonetheless, Sean was held for about 90 minutes in a reception area, she says, because the hospital could not confirm that the check had cleared. Sean was allowed to see the doctor only after he advanced MD Anderson $7,500 from his credit card. The hospital says there was nothing unusual about how Sean was kept waiting. According to MD Anderson communications manager Julie Penne, “Asking for advance payment for services is a common, if unfortunate, situation that confronts hospitals all over the United States.”

    The total cost, in advance, for Sean to get his treatment plan and initial doses of chemotherapy was $83,900.

    Why?

    The first of the 344 lines printed out across eight pages of his hospital bill — filled with indecipherable numerical codes and acronyms — seemed innocuous. But it set the tone for all that followed. It read, “1 ACETAMINOPHE TABS 325 MG.” The charge was only $1.50, but it was for a generic version of a Tylenol pill. You can buy 100 of them on Amazon for $1.49 even without a hospital’s purchasing power.

    (VIDEO: The Exorbitant Prices of Health Care)

    Dozens of midpriced items were embedded with similarly aggressive markups, like $283.00 for a “CHEST, PA AND LAT 71020.” That’s a simple chest X-ray, for which MD Anderson is routinely paid $20.44 when it treats a patient on Medicare, the government health care program for the elderly.

    Every time a nurse drew blood, a “ROUTINE VENIPUNCTURE” charge of $36.00 appeared, accompanied by charges of $23 to $78 for each of a dozen or more lab analyses performed on the blood sample. In all, the charges for blood and other lab tests done on Recchi amounted to more than $15,000. Had Recchi been old enough for Medicare, MD Anderson would have been paid a few hundred dollars for all those tests. By law, Medicare’s payments approximate a hospital’s cost of providing a service, including overhead, equipment and salaries.

    On the second page of the bill, the markups got bolder. Recchi was charged $13,702 for “1 RITUXIMAB INJ 660 MG.” That’s an injection of 660 mg of a cancer wonder drug called Rituxan. The average price paid by all hospitals for this dose is about $4,000, but MD Anderson probably gets a volume discount that would make its cost $3,000 to $3,500. That means the nonprofit cancer center’s paid-in-advance markup on Recchi’s lifesaving shot would be about 400%.

    When I asked MD Anderson to comment on the charges on Recchi’s bill, the cancer center released a written statement that said in part, “The issues related to health care finance are complex for patients, health care providers, payers and government entities alike … MD Anderson’s clinical billing and collection practices are similar to those of other major hospitals and academic medical centers.”

    The hospital’s hard-nosed approach pays off. Although it is officially a nonprofit unit of the University of Texas, MD Anderson has revenue that exceeds the cost of the world-class care it provides by so much that its operating profit for the fiscal year 2010, the most recent annual report it filed with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, was $531 million. That’s a profit margin of 26% on revenue of $2.05 billion, an astounding result for such a service-intensive enterprise.1

    The president of MD Anderson is paid like someone running a prosperous business. Ronald DePinho’s total compensation last year was $1,845,000. That does not count outside earnings derived from a much publicized waiver he received from the university that, according to the Houston Chronicle, allows him to maintain unspecified “financial ties with his three principal pharmaceutical companies.



    Read more: Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us | TIME.com
    I'm speechless after reading this article. Can I ask what the difference is between this criminal price gouging and someone with a backhoe charging $10,000/h during a natural disaster? Many would consider the hoe operator to be an immoral criminal profiteer who is exploiting a disaster for personal gain and that is why in most cases that type of absurdity is illegal. Is the hospital not EXACTLY the same? Price gouge people who are dying out of their life savings?

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Yep.

    My mom died of Leukemia after a 6 month battle and stay at MD Anderson. My parents had top notch insurance that covered it, but I can't imagine what they charged.

    They would still ask us to buy drugs for her at their pharmacy. I remember going to buy one prescription. A little bottle of some milky looking substance. I remember being completely shocked that it cost $1200.

    Your Mom is dying. The doctor tells you to buy a prescription. And when you get to the counter to pick it up, it costs $1200.

    WHAT DO YOU DO?

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    MD Anderson is a part of the University of Texas. As a FOR Profit Hospital it is bound by different rules.

    Do I think their attitude is a good one or policy a good one? Not by a long shot but they are not some public hospital they are FOR PROFIT Hospital which means they can charge what they like at the price they want. That is called business.

    BTW I did look them up on the web and YES they are for profit private hospital.

    Also since the OP and article link seems to be claiming multiple hospitals but only talks about MD Anderson I suspect slanted coverage with no actual broad study done. Then again it is TIME magazine so it is slanted.


    You might as well complain about what the University charges for courses and why college is expensive.
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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    One might also look at how many physicians are opting out of accepting Medicare because of the very low reimbursement rates.
    “Well, congratulations, President Barack Obama, Conspiracy theorists who generally can survive in anaerobic environments have just had an algae bloom dropped on their fucking heads, thus removing the last arrow in your pro-governance quiver: skepticism about your opponents.” - Jon Stewart

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    One might also look at how many physicians are opting out of accepting Medicare because of the very low reimbursement rates.
    Please, oh please supply me with a list of MDs who have ACTUALLY opted out of Medicare.
    You should always have an informed opinion, so after I inform you, please feel free to express my opinion...USCitizen

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by USCitizen View Post
    Please, oh please supply me with a list of MDs who have ACTUALLY opted out of Medicare.
    Do you believe I am some sort of physician data collection service? What a silly question....
    “Well, congratulations, President Barack Obama, Conspiracy theorists who generally can survive in anaerobic environments have just had an algae bloom dropped on their fucking heads, thus removing the last arrow in your pro-governance quiver: skepticism about your opponents.” - Jon Stewart

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Read this today as well linked of CNN, very well written article about what we face when it comes to healthcare costs.
    - Frustrated Independent

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people.” - Penn Jillette amazingly enough, and I agree.

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by Wlessard View Post
    Do I think their attitude is a good one or policy a good one? Not by a long shot but they are not some public hospital they are FOR PROFIT Hospital which means they can charge what they like at the price they want. That is called business.
    lol....so predictable. I knew it would not take long for this response.

    We can always count on the middle class dupes of the Republican party to defend unethical business practices that are raking middle class Americans over the coals.

    Now continue to focus on liberals.

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Just one line from the artcle:

    Dozens of midpriced items were embedded with similarly aggressive markups, like $283.00 for a “CHEST, PA AND LAT 71020.” That’s a simple chest X-ray, for which MD Anderson is routinely paid $20.44 when it treats a patient on Medicare, the government health care program for the elderly.
    Who do you suppose picks up the real costs of all of those medicare patients and indigent patients that hospitals treat for less than it costs them? It is those who have insurance or those who have an ability to pay. In this case, these people chose to go to a high cost teaching hospital which is on the cutting edge of treatment. Cutting edge treatment costs a lot of money. Were it not for investments of this type, there would be no chemotherapy. There would be no arthroscopic surgery. There would be no miracle drugs.

    These folks wanted the best cutting edge treatment possible, traveled to Houston to get it, and now people are complaining because they were not charged the same prices they would be charged if they sought treatment in their local hospital and took the treatment that was available there. Why do you suppose people travel from Canada to the U.S. for treatment? Why do they come here from Europe for treatment? There will always be some new and innovative treatments that will save lives when no other treatment will and they will be expensive because if they weren't there would be no effort to develop them.

    Even local hospitals charge insurance patients higher than would be necessary to cover the costs of medicare and indigent treatment. Doctors who take medicare patients charge insured patients more to make up for their medicare losses. That's just a fact of coverage here today.
    The modern Liberal is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. OMD


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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    Can I ask what the difference is between this criminal price gouging and someone with a backhoe charging $10,000/h during a natural disaster?
    Yeah.

    The guy with the backhoe isn't required by law to provide service free of charge to every indigent and illegal alien who wants a hole dug.
    USCitizen, OldmanDan and Whipple like this.
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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by USCitizen View Post
    Please, oh please supply me with a list of MDs who have ACTUALLY opted out of Medicare.
    I know it includes a lot of pediatricians, and Obstetricians, plus a whole lot of sports medicine practitioners
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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Ummm....is this shock? It's not the insurance companies that are gouging the customers, it's the actual healthcare costs. Out of those costs the pharma companies are the worst and they are completely in bed with both Republicans and Democrats. How do you think such ridiculous patent laws exist and how legislation is doing it's best to keep us from say....buying generic brands out of country because we cannot get them here? It's freaking ridiculous.
    "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." - John Maynard Keynes (admits his philosophy is not viable)

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Do you believe I am some sort of physician data collection service? What a silly question....
    Actually, I do believe you are a Physician Data Collection Service because you are CONSTANTLY quoting vague sources that every physician in the US is going to either retire or reject Medicare patients.
    So how many Physicians do YOU go to and how many have given you their retirement dates and recommended the next physician you should give your business to?

    I guess I'm lucky that the physicians I know who hate Obama and the ACA can't hide their mansions and the fact that their kids are either in Pre-Med or already in Medical School and they're kvelling over it.
    You should always have an informed opinion, so after I inform you, please feel free to express my opinion...USCitizen

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    No, it doesn't cost that much for the cutting edge care and the article proves it. This is gouging so the administrators can become millionaires off people's dying relatives. They could be for profit and make a profit without insane gouging. It's criminal.

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    Re: New Time Article: incredible price gouging by Hospitals

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    No, it doesn't cost that much for the cutting edge care and the article proves it. This is gouging so the administrators can become millionaires off people's dying relatives. They could be for profit and make a profit without insane gouging. It's criminal.
    The article proves no such thing.
    The modern Liberal is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. OMD


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