Well, point taken.

But I'm not making the case that people that work at insurance companies are nefarious. All I'm saying is that the business model dictates a drive to keep costs (claims payments) down.

If you're saying it takes more money to deny a claim, based on contractually agreed to policy restrictions, than to pay it out, I have a hard time believing it.

Even for questionable claims denials, I think only a small percentage end up in "dispute". People most often don't fight back or pursue legal action upon being denied a claim.

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The world could use more Stan Ovshinsky's

you want a burocrat making those calls ?

google up asking tax questions of the IRS to get a feel of what you can expect from these public servants.

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

I wouldn't worry about that. You used to think the sun shined out Ron Paul's ass and he was just the ultimate, perfect Presidential candidate. In a matter of days, you became an Obama worshiper.

The two candidates, of course, had nearly nothing in common, so switching your unwavering allegiance required changing your views on dozens - perhaps hundreds - of issues.

After that flip-flop, changing your mind on just one issue doesn't even register

Matt

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"An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy; because there is a limit beyond which no institution and no property can bear taxation." - John Marshall

*Shakes head in disbelief for Danny's reasoning*

While I understand that you may feel your change of heart is breaking news but, seriously Danny, how exactly is this "Breaking News"?

As for your flip flop, I won't beat you on it - better to change your mind then never have had a mind.

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Great Quotes from Great Americans:

"With regard to the words 'general welfare', I have always regarded them as qualified by the details of the powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphisis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."James Madison, Father of the Constitution

Here's an idea....

Why not find a source that actually puts forward the reasons why this 'death panel' thing came up.

Where does this 'source' send us?

Oh look to reality check (Obama's spin machine on health care)

Don't trust that.... where do you go?

Fact check (Obama's spin machine)

Or

CNN (hardly an unbiased media source)


etc etc etc

You're very funny. You see no reason why some would view all of these with suspicion?

You link to them and I an link to hard factual quotes from the guys who are designing this healthcare system about how these 'death panels' will focus on 14-40 yr olds.

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Great Quotes from Great Americans:

"With regard to the words 'general welfare', I have always regarded them as qualified by the details of the powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphisis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."James Madison, Father of the Constitution

I thought Obama was in favour of one?

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/0...mas-own-words/

The US already has socialised healthcare.

Fine, but that's such an individual thing, and it doesn't seem wise to take that out of patients's and doctors' hands, and turn it into something that "we" (ie, you, the American taxpayers) pay for and determine.

Claims payment doesn't actually hurt them if they are getting money in, they have to plan on paying claims, it's built into the business model. What costs the insurance firms is time spent processing and dealing with claims. A denial is going to cost them more then a approval because it's very likely someone is calling back about the claim.

People have to remember they are the customer, the insurance company is providing the service. Don't be afraid to call them, it costs them more to screw you over then it does to help you.


and to be on topic for the thread-

the Death Panel claims are B.S. based on a misreading of what could otherwise still be viewed as objectionable clauses by many people.

[QUOTE=Hafke;1500439]I think he personally is in favor of single payer...but that's not at all what he's pushing or proposing.

Yes Medicare...but I'm speaking about socialized medicine in the comprehensive sense that's being characterized in the fear mongering.

Morally, I agree, but there have to be some restrictions to make it economically viable. The white elephant in the room is when the baby boom generation needs geriatric care a few years down the road. That's what this part of the policy is all about.

The moral dilemma then becomes focused on the nation, not at individual cases. Are we an altruistic enough country to endure great sacrifice in order to sustain our elderly as long as absolutely possible?

I would hate to make that call because I'm morally conflicted, but I also realize what hangs in the balance.

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The world could use more Stan Ovshinsky's

re insurance co's, right on the money.

re death panels, consider this... ins cos make their living guessing at costs (in advance) so as to set rates that allow them to pay the bills and make a buck or two. they have gotten to where they do a pretty good job of this. what are the chances that burocrats can do as well ? they will likely still be tied to their budget and will have to make calls on cost alone (as we have seen in other countries). this is the nature of the distinction between peopel who do this for a living as opposed to people who work for the government. They will either deny care due to money or go way red in the ink. ot maybe both.

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

I haven't been following this issue too closely (I am young and very healthy). Let me get this straight: is it actually being proposed that people who can pay for whatever they need, 100% out of pocket, will be denied that which they need by order of the USA government?

If you haven't been following the debate, are not American, and are not affected, what the hell business is it of yours what we do or do not do?

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Great Quotes from Great Americans:

"With regard to the words 'general welfare', I have always regarded them as qualified by the details of the powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphisis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."James Madison, Father of the Constitution

Moved out of Breaking News, where it never belonged.

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"An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy; because there is a limit beyond which no institution and no property can bear taxation." - John Marshall

I am a USA citizen, and I will be elderly one day.

if you mean can you opt out ? answer appears to be it will cost you ala uninsured motorist fee from the DMV (under the most lenent plan under consideration).

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

That fee goes to whom, and is used for what?