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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
Analyst's Avatar
Analyst Analyst is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
Every time you see the flag "fluttering" it is because a person is holding the standard and shaking it.



Matt
This is not true. There are several videos showing just wind hitting the flag. At this moment I found a one, but there are many.

YouTube - We never went to the moon

There are many other major errors in the pictures. Maybe the worst one is that the one who tailored these, did not understand that the earth should be all the time at the same altitude above the horizon as the moon keeps its same face to earth all the time. There are no earth rises in the moon. The worst cases have an error of 40 degrees which is just crazy. These pictures are fake - sorry!
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
I just saw this thread and frankly....you must truly live in your own world.....bye.

oh and its called solar wind....
... Solar wind that moves the flag... he-he...

This topic is really funny. I didn't laugh so much for a long time. Thank you, really thanks. That is the funniest thing i've heard recently.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
I find interesting that people who support the idea that americans really were on the Moon are americans... I think it's normal behavior, patriots always support their country even if they have hesitation about the reliability of the facts.
And the people who oppose that idea are non-americans (europeans, chineese, russians, etc).

That's not true, MilleVanille.

I am not American, and I believe Apollo 11 did land on the Moon in July 1969. I have already outlined my reasons in two prior posts here.

And though I live in Australia, I am French by birth.

Also, and quite unfortunately, this conspiracy theory that the US never went to the Moon originated in the US itself, I believe.

And as for non-Americans, there would be some who believe the conspiracy idea but many more others who accept that the Moon landing did take place. It is, in fact, as I said before, one of the achievements of the US that the world most respects and admires.

Where are the Russian, Chinese, French, etc scientists and experts who question this event took place?

Please don't quote the "Dark Side of the Moon" documentary already cited here. The documentary was NOT a revelation that the Moon landing was a hoax. It was designed to trick viewers into believing this, precisely to demonstrate how easy it is to fake a story.

True, in the end the viewer is left questioning everything that he/she believes to be a "true story". .

Those who believe that what they saw and heard in the documentary can be taken as proof that the Moon landing did not take place, are missing the point.

In other words, it was a hoax on a hoax.


Tethys
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Further to my post above, I find it quite astonishing that those who claim that the Moon landing was faked, are seemingly unable to pick out the deception at play in the Dark Side of the Moon video, even though this trickery is freely admitted by the Point du Jour production team.

Point du Jour - Programmes

Tethys
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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Re: The moon landing

I just want to inform some of the critical documentary films made in USA where several NASA and Russian experts also speak. You can find these from the net also:

1 - Did We Land On The Moon (Fox TV)
2 - The Moon landing fake or real - Kaysing
3 - Moon Landing 1969 - (If You Can't Make It Fake It) - Moffet
4 - The Greatest Government Conspiracy of All Times - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon - Bart Sibrel
5 - Apollo 11 Moon Mission NASA - [NOT FOR PUBLIC DISTRIBUTION] (video rawmaterial showing the fabrication) - NASA

Maybe it is not necessary to mention that the net is full of so called moon landing hoax pages - you may try to write those words to your browser.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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drgoodtrips drgoodtrips is offline
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Re: The moon landing

If the moon landing was faked, I wonder why no one has gotten around to faking a Mars landing.
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
I just want to inform some of the critical documentary films made in USA where several NASA and Russian experts also speak. You can find these from the net also:

1 - Did We Land On The Moon (Fox TV)
2 - The Moon landing fake or real - Kaysing
3 - Moon Landing 1969 - (If You Can't Make It Fake It) - Moffet
4 - The Greatest Government Conspiracy of All Times - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon - Bart Sibrel
5 - Apollo 11 Moon Mission NASA - [NOT FOR PUBLIC DISTRIBUTION] (video rawmaterial showing the fabrication) - NASA

Maybe it is not necessary to mention that the net is full of so called moon landing hoax pages - you may try to write those words to your browser.
The internet and television are full of all kinds of nonsense. That doesn't mean I'm credulous or needy enough to deny the overwhelming evidence and my own common sense to buy into the foolishness.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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drgoodtrips drgoodtrips is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Actually, for those of you interested in reading extensively about this particlar konspiracy, a wealth of information can be found here:

The Flat Earth Society

This one in particlar has a lot of intesting information:
theflatearthsociety.org :: View topic - Footballer Arrested to Hide Fake Moonwalk
Quote:
Some sceptics believe there is a broader government plot to fool the public.

Charles Johnson, president of the anti-space Flat Earth Society, said the hoax was exposed in the 1978 film Capricorn One, in which the United States fakes a Mars landing. One actor in that film was the former football star O J Simpson, who is now accused of two murders. According to Mr Johnson, the
film "proved the entire government space programme is a hoax. They're finally going after O J because he helped unmask the space hoax."
That's right - ever since OJ Simpson landed on Mars, we have known that both landing on the moon and a round earth are hoaxes.

Diabolical!
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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Spadplanter Spadplanter is offline
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Re: The moon landing

There is no moon. It is all a fake. What appears to be the moon is really a control booth of a REALLY big sound stage. For further details, see the documentary "The Truman Show". It explains all.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
The internet and television are full of all kinds of nonsense. That doesn't mean I'm credulous or needy enough to deny the overwhelming evidence and my own common sense to buy into the foolishness.
Indeed - the principle of due information society is that maximum amount of evidence should be available to everybody and also as many explaining models for the data. People should understand that the experts have been trained to make best explanations, but also that there can be several scholars among experts. In complicated issues, ordinary people should rely very much on experts. People should also understand that there are not only scientific motives but also political ones in explaining the data. Therefore the freedom of opinions is one of the key indicators of democracy. Nobody is forcing you to believe in anything - in a modern politically driven society we must more and more use our own brains to objectively assess also so called official theories. A good example was Soviet Union where such private thinking was forbidden and the governmental KGB (local CIA) ordered what people can think and believe. This is quite much the case in USA today.

By the way - speaking about "flat earth societies" is just to mess up and to give an impression that if you disagree with the governmental version you are a complete fool - this is not a nice way to respect people!
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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MattLarson MattLarson is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
Maybe it is not necessary to mention that the net is full of so called moon landing hoax pages - you may try to write those words to your browser.
The net is also full of "Elvis lives" (1.58 million hits) and UFO (2.87 million hits) pages as well. Do you find that probative?

Matt
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
we must more and more use our own brains
This is the only part of your otherwise incomprehensible ramble that made any sense at all. And it is the one thing that the loony conspiracy freaks fail to do.

You are obviously free to believe whatever makes you feel part of something significant. But you really can't expect others not to laugh.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006
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Ductor Remigium Ductor Remigium is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
Maybe the worst one is that the one who tailored these, did not understand that the earth should be all the time at the same altitude above the horizon as the moon keeps its same face to earth all the time. There are no earth rises in the moon. The worst cases have an error of 40 degrees which is just crazy. These pictures are fake - sorry!
Do you have any links to such images? I thought the only cases where there were earthrises on images happened when the images were taken when orbiting the moon.
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Analyst, in my posts I have not intended to ridicule those who claim that the Apollo 11 Moon landing was faked.

I have not negated outright the possibility that it was a hoax.

I am aware of the long arm of political motives and machinations.

And I totally agree that we should seek as much information as possible, and question any official line or claims, whether we speak of science, politics, history, the news, medicine or anything else.

My problem with the hoax theory is the lack of authoritative testimony.

As Matt Larson hints at in his post here, the probative value of the claims presented thus far is weak.

If I apply the principle of Ockham’s razor to this problem, I have to weigh the probability of the official account against the hoax claims.

So, on the one hand, NASA institutes the Apollo program under a directive from President Kennedy, achieving the set goal of landing on the Moon in July 1969.

On the other hand, the goal is not achieved and an elaborate conspiracy is contrived, including a studio-staged mission mock-up.

It is hard to address the claims made by the conspiracy believers, because they range from claims that it did happen but the photographs and videos were taken in advance, to claims that the whole thing was a hoax and they never left Earth.
As a child, I followed avidly NASA’s missions. I use to go to a coin shop in Sydney to buy all the mission tokens. The man in the shop would always keep new ones under the counter for me. I still have these tokens, going back to Apollo 7.

I’d like to point out that two other earlier missions in the Apollo program, Apollo 8 and Apollo 10, both orbited the Moon. Or were these faked as well?

Apollo 9, the intermediate mission, remained in Earth orbit but involved a test flight of the lunar module.

For more information on the Apollo program:

The Apollo Program

The point is that there were prior missions and numerous Earth-based rehearsals where photographs, videos and audio material were collected.

It is quite possible, then, that such material was mixed with the Apollo 11 material, in a rush to feed the huge demand for audio-visual material, both during the Apollo 11 mission and after its accomplishment.

This, to me, is the simplest explanation for any verifiable discrepancies. This may have been a little underhand if it did happen, but it’s not indicative of a conspiracy.

While I realise I have not addressed all questions, my point is that none of the queries made by conspiracy theorists are substantial enough to disprove the official account of the Moon landing. Even the political motives advanced are weak, given that the Moon landing had little impact on the balance of power in the world in 1969; did not have any major effect on the biggest political quagmire for the US at the time, the Vietnam War; and did not save Nixon’s presidency.

For the US to be able to pull off such an elaborate conspiracy in the midst of such a domestic climate and in the middle of the cold War is plainly hard to believe.

And that’s what it comes down to in the end.

It is far more probable that there are basic explanations for all the queries raised in conjunction with this event, than to believe that this elaborate hoax was masterminded.

Oh it’s sooooooo past my bedtime…

Good night all…we will go to the Moon again!

Tethys
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2006
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Re: The moon landing

Dear Tethys - I will try to explain what are the most likely facts when seen the issue as an outsider (I have PhD in Natural Sciences incl. Asrtonomy, but my present work is dealing with global politics).

1) The political situation was very bad to USA and becoming hot in the late 1960s. Soviet Union was much better in hi-tec and especially in space research where they had all the firsts and they started to gain political support from many directions. USA was a looser. The speech of Kennedy was a desperate attempt to collect left-overs. But he was not a criminal - it was necessary to play dirty game and president had to be changed. Nixon said to NASA - "if you cannot make it -fake it" as he was a fun of Kubricks space movies. The schedule was completely unrealistic because they thought that Russians will send a man to moon (the priority of Russian space research was in robotic missions, however).

2) The space scientists of USA said very clearly that it is not possible to do what Kennedy said. Werner von Braun and several other experts said that it was not possible to send such rockets to the moon. The biggest problems were the cosmic radiation which would damage any humans, electronics and films. Another point was the difficulty to land to the moon - there was no technology to stabilize rocket engine-based landing vehicles - all the ground tests had failed.

3) There is a pile of very reliable evidence that many moon photographs and videos were fake. The astronauts are filming a slide attached to the window of the capsule, picture taken by a weather satellite and telling that it is earth from a distance of 130.000 km as they are on the way to the moon. In the film they remove the slide and put lights on - and anybody can see that they were in a low-orbit (200 km) close to earth - and after a day they said that they are behind the moon which was not possible. This is a clear lie. There are several other complete bluffs among the pictures. Any astronom can say this easily. The ones who did the fabrications was clever enough not to take stars and earth to the pictures, because they would have shown the fabrication immediatelly. All the pictures where earth can be seen show that the situation was impossible (altitude and day/night line of earth was not correct).

Conclusion is that at least some/most of the pictures are fake. Why NASA was not honest? The main question remains if all the materials are fake? This question is very similar to 911 - if one can find some fake materials, the whole issue remains open. I feel very bad when watching e.g. Sibrel's attempts to force the astronauts to swear that they have been on the moon - nobody has done it and most asrtonauts don't want to speak about the whole issue.

This is completely an issue belonging to US scientists and people who paid all this and e.g. I don't take any headache about this. People should ask more questions from their governments!
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