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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
There were indeed very strong bursts of solar radiation when the Apollo astronauts were said to bee on moon. Here is what your link is saying about such:
BIOMEDICAL RESULTS OF APOLLO - RADIATION PROTECTION AND INSTRUMENTATION (Sec.2,Ch.3)
quote:
It is estimated that within the Command Module during this event the crewmen would have received a dose of 360 rads[*] to their skin and 35 rads to their blood-forming organs (bone and spleen). Radiation doses to crewmen while inside the thinly shielded Lunar Module or during an extravehicular activity (EVA) would be extremely serious for such a particle event.

Neutrons created by cosmic rays in collision with lunar materials were postulated to be a potential hazard to Apollo crewmen. Later analyses indicated that neutron doses were significantly lower than had been anticipated (note - why!).

Radiation doses measured during Apollo were significantly lower than the yearly average of 5 rem[*] set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for workers... (note - why!)
...
My comments:
And it was not possible for them to find any protection. This is a clear evidence that they did never go through the Van Allen belts and to the moon. Van Allen belt protects earth from radiation as only 0.1 % of that penetrates through. Consequently, as the mentioned study revealed that the radiation in the Apollo capsules remained similar as on earth, the fact is that they never left the low-earth orbit.
I am aware of what the report says, Analyst. That's why I posted it. I urge people to read it in full, and to also at least read the Dedication, Editorial Board, Foreward, & Preface of the book, and its summary. Note that the book collects reports up to the final Apollo 17 mission.

Tethys
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
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Analyst Analyst is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tethys View Post
I am aware of what the report says, Analyst. That's why I posted it. I urge people to read it in full, and to also at least read the Dedication, Editorial Board, Foreward, & Preface of the book, and its summary. Note that the book collects reports up to the final Apollo 17 mission.

Tethys
I would appreciate if you could explain a bit more why we should read the book - do you want us to read it critically or just to take what is written? Is there something curious. Maybe we don't have motivation if you don't specify.

I have seen a number of very similar and very superficial books and web pages from the Apollo program and most of them do not have any science behind. For a scientist many of them are just nonsense. The material you mentioned was one of these. If it says that the astronauts received the same amount of radiation in moon as on earth - this is an evidence that they never went to moon.

I will repeat that I don't want to judge if man has been on the moon, but the material I have seen is from its major part complete scrap. The Americans need to make more questions from NASA. I also remind that the American media has recently been attacking against NASA in this issue. Anyway. Kubrick was a good film director.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
Ironman Jack Ironman Jack is offline
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Question Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
Earth-found moon rocks are distinguishable from the real thing because those actually brought back from the moon still have the micro-impacts of minute impacts on the surface of the moon. On earth these micro-impacts don't occur due to the atmosphere and the original micro-impacts that happened when the rock was still on the moon have eroded away during the time spent in the Antarctic ice. This constitutes a litmus test for the finding place of moon rocks. I'm not aware of any anomalous data in this context. If you have a credible source here, please share.


I don't know the film you're referring to. Could you give a list of the participating experts ?


What aspect of a moonlanding would constitute a violation of the laws of nature and which laws specifically ? It's actually a fairly simple trip in that regard (although definitely an impressive feat back in 1969).
Edit : Scuse me, you addressed that in the above post.


Independent scientists, I couldn't agree more, but as for the media, I see very little independence there, be it from governmental or corporate influence.

Let me see Werner von Braun, and thousands of supporting scientists were not quite as smart as you, so therefore you and Your Kool-Aid-Tin Foil hat crowd decided it was staged? BRILLIANT!!

Did your group figure out the JFK Killer or killers?

How was 9/11 pulled off
A. Bankers
B. Illuminati
C. Israel
D. Rosie O'Donnell's mouth
E. Islamic Patriots getting back at the Worlds Satan, for not believing in Islam and their hardback Edition of Mad-Magazine, the Koran??

Uninformed minds need to know, why the Ruskies were tracking all this by Radar to splashdown? Hmmm??
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Ironman Jack, You are probably quoting WarOnIgnarance to back up your views...but it comes across a little as if you are including him/her in the conspiracy camp.

Tetys
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
I would appreciate if you could explain a bit more why we should read the book - do you want us to read it critically or just to take what is written? Is there something curious. Maybe we don't have motivation if you don't specify.

I have seen a number of very similar and very superficial books and web pages from the Apollo program and most of them do not have any science behind. For a scientist many of them are just nonsense. The material you mentioned was one of these. If it says that the astronauts received the same amount of radiation in moon as on earth - this is an evidence that they never went to moon.

I will repeat that I don't want to judge if man has been on the moon, but the material I have seen is from its major part complete scrap. The Americans need to make more questions from NASA. I also remind that the American media has recently been attacking against NASA in this issue. Anyway. Kubrick was a good film director.
I thought I had stated my reasons for posting the book but, I’ll expand on my earlier remarks, then.

Of course I want people to read the book critically, Analyst.

The book is a collection of reports by NASA and corporate experts, and presents a frank insight into the divisions that prevailed about the safety and other practical problems the mission would entail. Thus the book does not discount these concerns, nor makes claims to having resolved them entirely. For certain, though, it does not suggest that the mission did not take place, and it documents the key medical findings.

No, I read nothing “curious” in what I have read so far. I have already stated that I don’t have a science background, so I’m really not in a position to dissect the material to that extent. I can raise questions, but I can’t jump to the conclusion that this or that finding is false or proves that the Moon landing was faked.

As I have strenuously attempted to explain, I take a probability stance. I do not have the scientific knowledge to argue in a sientific framework as to whether or not the Moon landing took place. However, there are other criteria that I can call upon to form an opinion on the question at hand.

The problem with the conspiracy theory is that it doesn’t just demand that we accept the views of some experts that there are scienttific factors that make the Moon landing impossible, and to do so over the testimony of other experts who claim it is possible, it also demands a leap of the mind about a range of other factors that need to come into play for the fraud to have worked.
look at what the experts say. Yes, some experts claim that it never took place. Others question it. And others defend it. So I look at the key people that were involved in the program, and I see no one stepping forward to blow the whistle.

As I said before, I look at the fact that the Soviet Union never claimed it was a hoax, though they had the ability to monitor the missions, and it doesn’t stand to reason that they would have kept silent about it.

I look at the fact that Australia was a primary agent in the relay of the TV images for Apollo 11, and again it demands that I believe that they too would have had to be part of the fraud.

There’s the question of the billions of dollars that were allocated to the program, and that I must believe were spirited away from the coffers of the US treasury without any accountability.

There’s the fact that the Apollo program records nine circumlunar missions (inc. six moon landings).

Do the conspiracy theorists have “”evidence” that all the missions were faked?

Good night everyone...time to turn in again.

Tetys
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
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Analyst Analyst is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Tethys - some experts have tried to obtain real technical data from NASA, but they say that the material has disappeared or cannot be delivered (e.g. flight path records).

It is very easy to impress non-experts - just to say that everything has been studied. Certainly, if the astronauts would have been there without a helmet - and said that the atmosphere was ok for humans - most people would have believed.

Earth atmosphere and the van Allen belts remove 99.9 % of the extremely dangerous cosmic radiation - in moon there is no atmosphere and no van Allen belts. If somebody is trying to tell to an expert that the radiation conditions in moon were similar as on earth - he would laugh (as was said in your link). This is an evidence that they did not go to moon... or then they betrayed the astronauts which survived from some strange reason.

The Soviet Glavkosmos expert said that they knew all the time that the pictures from the moon were fake. Russians did not have any motive to blame Americans - other way round, also they got more funding as the result.

The Australians only received the image data signal transmitted from the capsule even if it was in the low-earth orbit. That could have been a part of the hoax ... to limit the number of US experts involved.

For me the whole issue is not important at all and I don't collect material about this. I am not a conspiracy theorist but I have very high scientific background - I don't want to make any criminal investigations flight by flight. It is solely the task of the tax payers.

The motive for exaggerating the results of space research was to obtain money for the greedy war industry which is always very close to US presidents (you cannot afford to be a presinent of USA without oil, drug and war industry money).

Last edited by Analyst; 12-16-2006 at 11:32 AM.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
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MattLarson MattLarson is offline
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Re: The moon landing

I'd say your conclusions support a claim of a high background, all right.

Matt
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006
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ReddAlert ReddAlert is offline
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Re: The moon landing

get over it. We were on the moon--various times.
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2006
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAlert View Post
get over it. We were on the moon--various times.
You and the rest of Team America, you mean?
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2006
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Gort Gort is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Don't you think it is kind of funny that someone that loves the truth chooses the name MilleVanille?
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2006
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravidMind View Post
I really think USPOL should have a conspiracy section. But before I go into the wacko world, is it some sort of collective reasoning that grand conspiracies can not exist; are just out and out impossible like a aquare circle despite suspicious and unanswerable evidence?

Here are some interesting links that propose that the lunar landing on the moon was fake:

Was The Apollo Moon Landing Fake?

and:

The Moon Shots Were Faked

Do you remember the James Bond movie "Diamonds Are Forever"? If you have seen this movie you may remember a scene where Mr. Bond, James Bond tries to escape the clutches of evil henceman through a scientific space research facility. He runs into a room that looks like a studio set up to be a lunar landscape with slow motion actors in moon suits and the whole bit. I thought that was sorta funny. Anyway, I'm kinda swayed to believe there is a better than good chance we have been duped. And if it one day, somehow, came out that it was fake, I'm almost positive that I would have one of the best laughs I had in a long time.

Can't leave out partisan hackery:

Bush could learn a lot about public duplicity from that good 'ol administration!
NASA planted some kind of laser beam receiver thing on the moon when they landed there back in 69. I believe that it can both receive and return laser beams from the earth which should constitute proof for the moon landing.
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2006
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jpsartre12 jpsartre12 is offline
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Re: The moon landing

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Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
NASA planted some kind of laser beam receiver thing on the moon when they landed there back in 69. I believe that it can both receive and return laser beams from the earth which should constitute proof for the moon landing.
Actually, it was several groups of mirrors. Lasers are fired at it periodically, IIRC, to measure the exact distance from the earth to the moon at any given moment.
index
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2006
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsartre12 View Post
Actually, it was several groups of mirrors. Lasers are fired at it periodically, IIRC, to measure the exact distance from the earth to the moon at any given moment.
index
This is not an evidence that MEN have been in the moon. Certainly robots have been there and many kinds of devices installed. I am waiting for explanations - e.g. why it was mentioned that the radiation in the moon was similar as on earth because it was indicated by the detectors the astronauts had with them. This is a complete joke - earth atmosphere and magnetic field prevents 99.9% from the dangerous cosmic radiation to enter the earth, but in the moon there is no such protection. If the astonauts made this discovery, it shows that they have never been in the moon. Why the had helmets - maybe they could have been there without them, too.
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2006
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jpsartre12 jpsartre12 is offline
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Re: The moon landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
This is not an evidence that MEN have been in the moon. Certainly robots have been there and many kinds of devices installed. I am waiting for explanations - e.g. why it was mentioned that the radiation in the moon was similar as on earth because it was indicated by the detectors the astronauts had with them. This is a complete joke - earth atmosphere and magnetic field prevents 99.9% from the dangerous cosmic radiation to enter the earth, but in the moon there is no such protection. If the astonauts made this discovery, it shows that they have never been in the moon. Why the had helmets - maybe they could have been there without them, too.
Obviously, dealing with radiation IS an issue for long-term survival on the moon.
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2006
Tethys Tethys is offline
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Re: The moon landing

One would assume that there could be no greater authority on the Van Allen belt than Dr. James Van Allen.

James Van Allen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sadly, he passed away in August 2006.

However, below is a link to an interview with him recorded in November 2005, as part of a debate hosted by CBC Radio’s Quirks and Quarks program, on the question of whether space exploration should be carried out with humans or robots.

Dr James Van Allen takes the view that manned space missions are not necessary. He was critical of President Bush’s 2004 directive for missions to the Moon and Mars.

But in the CBC interview, he speaks candidly of his reserved advocacy for the Apollo program, and categorically states that the manned landings took place.

Dr. James Van Allen discusses the problems of human space exploration and the great achievements of robotic explorers
CBC Radio
Quirks and Quarks
CBC Radio | Quirks & Quarks | Nov. 19, 2005

Tethys
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