Yes good point. Seems that by historical accounts the USSR killed more USSR citizens than the Germans did during WWII.

Involved in what way? And how do you extrapolate that into the conclusion that Hussein was a US puppet?

Can you explain the train of logic you used to come to that conclusion?

As a result of Ayatollah Khomeni's rise to power, Iran's armed forces were pretty much dismantled. This of course made way for Husseins forces to invade. The start of the Gulf War.

So what role, if any, do you think Iraq and France played in the rise of Khomeni's "Islamic" revolution?

Was this beneficial to the Iraqi Arab national socialist (Baathist) agenda?

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I have a shitload of views on this subject. For the moment, just a few observations; if you're going to make the case that an American intervention in any given situation was bad, then you're going to have to first apply a counterfactual and determine what the likely consequences would have been in the absence of said intervention, when you do that, the case in favor of the American action oftentimes becomes a good deal better; second, you should avoid the trap of falling into 'the world according to Washington' and consider to what extent American involvement decided the course of things, and to what extent the US rode currents that were already there, in virtually any of the well known cases, the situation was already volatile, and the US dealt with individuals who were already inclined towards or even actively pursuing the same ends that the US desired, in short understand that Pinochet, or Suharto, Mohammed Reza Shah, or whoever else you care to name, all had their own agendas, often ignored American wishes, and in no case could any of them honestly be described as 'puppets', in other words, try to find out how much American involvement influenced the course of the situation as opposed to domestic concerns.

I hope you don’t expect WEB to answer. He got the booted from USPol sometime last year.

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Election 2008 – Addicted to Placebos

All of you have failed to mention that it was also the people of the United States who suffered during the Cold War due to foreign and domestic policy.

Paranoia and hysteria gripped many in the States during that time, especially in the 50s and early 60s.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Independently from me sharing your views on the subject, I admit I enjoyed reading your blog post, adaher, thanks for sharing it.

I just wanted to point out that you've said several times in this thread that the USA did this in favor of freedom and democracy, which makes no sense at all.

LOL .

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say threat A exists to "freedom" and democracy. threat A is a world superpower only rivaled by the US. in order to combat threat A, the US support autocrats and local dynasties to counter the spread of threat A's economic system based on totalitarianism. the ends justify the means. the means employed did less damage than the failure to produce the ends would have.

so yes, bad things can be done in the name of good things. possible. not saying i have done enough research to assert this fully, just showing to you that it can make sense. generations from now the people may have the proper resources, documents, and evidence to fully understand the Cold War. we probably wont.

What I'm saying is that the USA was "threat A" to many countries.

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The USA had the means, and the will, to carry out a lot of covert and not so covert operations all over the world. We have not seen the outcome of these actions as yet.

What is certain is that no matter how much some Americans crow like an off-key rooster they definitely did not 'win' the Cold War. No-one did. And if there are any reading this who are too stupid to see that then I feel very sorry for you!

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

Your analysis is so shallow as to be unmeasurable by a chronometer! I'm assuming that you are a Christian and consider the Bible your ethical, moral and spiritual guide. If so, then go to your Bible and you will discover that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. Nor a bad tree bear good fruit! Nothing good can therefore come from, in your words "bad things....done in the name of good things"

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

so the world would be a better place if the United States did not bomb German factories during World War II because civilians would die? Not all good actions are immediately beautiful. if you dont think so, loook at your history and you will discover that things that are bad in a vaccum can be good in the big picture.

Hmm... I'm not sure your analogy is very valid. I doubt killing civilian factory workers during a war is the same as overthrowing democratically elected governments and establishing dictatorial regimes, specially when you consider that that was supposed to be done in freedom and democracy's sake.

And it's pretty annoying how some of you americans keep going back to WWII whenever you don't have decent arguments.

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I find it amusing the amount of people in everyday life that I run into who absolutely hate America, her history, and everything she stands for. I always tell them if they hate it so bad why don't they go move somewhere else. To which they typically respond with something about how big an asshole I am.

It's part of their mantra of "We won the war for you!". Of course this ignores the truth of what actually happened, but this type never lets facts get in the way!

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

I forgot, this is another part of the paradigm: "You hate America". Again, nothing could be further from the truth but, why bother with facts etc etc.

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

I think that the USA killed two birds with one stone: they helped their european allies and began a race to become the first superpower. So I don't believe that the USA did what they did for the wellbeing of the world, to free it from tirany and so on as I have heard some people say; that was a side effect. Don't forget the russians (being so "evil") also played a very important role in defeating nazi Germany; as a matter of fact it was them who took Berlin...

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