Religions and violence - Page 2 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

The Progressive · #16 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006

The fundamentalist nothing religion of Atheism has killed far more people than all the other religions of the world.

Something to think about.

Ash · #17 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Progressive

The fundamentalist nothing religion of Atheism has killed far more people than all the other religions of the world.

Something to think about.

Hmmm, have you got a some sort of support for this comment. I don't see atheists waging Jihad, crusades or any other form of 'Holy War'. I have never seen genocide commited in the name of atheism neither have I seen, or even heard of, people being tortured into converting to atheism. This is not to say that certain atheists have not done evil things, but then, people of all belief systems have done evil things.

Now, don't misunderstand, I am here to learn, so please, prove me wrong.

Dilettante · #18 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno

Hmmm, have you got a some sort of support for this comment. I don't see atheists waging Jihad, crusades or any other form of 'Holy War'. I have never seen genocide commited in the name of atheism neither have I seen, or even heard of, people being tortured into converting to atheism. This is not to say that certain atheists have not done evil things, but then, people of all belief systems have done evil things.

Now, don't misunderstand, I am here to learn, so please, prove me wrong.

I would hazard to guess he's referring to Mao Tse-tung and Joseph Stalin, the two individuals who have the infamous distinction of ordering/arranging the deaths of more humans than any other leaders in history. Both were avid atheists personally and anti-religious publically.
It certainly wouldn't be true, however, to say that they killed "in the name of Atheism". Merely that the systems they headed were atheist rather than religious in nature.

Ash · #19 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilettante

I would hazard to guess he's referring to Mao Tse-tung and Joseph Stalin, the two individuals who have the infamous distinction of ordering/arranging the deaths of more humans than any other leaders in history. Both were avid atheists personally and anti-religious publically.
It certainly wouldn't be true, however, to say that they killed "in the name of Atheism". Merely that the systems they headed were atheist rather than religious in nature.

Yeah, I had suspected that these two regimes were what he had in mind. Like you said, however, they did not do it in the name of atheism. From what I understand, they did it to their (percieved?) political enemies to strengthen their positions of power. In other words, I agree with what you are saying here.

The Progressive · #20 (**permalink**) 10-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Progressive
The fundamentalist nothing religion of Atheism has killed far more people than all the other religions of the world.

Something to think about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno

Hmmm, have you got a some sort of support for this comment. I don't see atheists waging Jihad, crusades or any other form of 'Holy War'. I have never seen genocide commited in the name of atheism neither have I seen, or even heard of, people being tortured into converting to atheism. This is not to say that certain atheists have not done evil things, but then, people of all belief systems have done evil things.

Now, don't misunderstand, I am here to learn, so please, prove me wrong.

I dont care too much for spoon feeding people information they should already know but China and The USSR are and were Atheist worshipping nations who outlawed all other forms of religion in pursuit of their nothing fundamentalism and slaughtered 10's of millions of their own people achieving their unholy goal as well as China currently jailing and harvesting the organs of believers of Falun Gong who died in their jails for nothing more than their belief. NK currently deifies their Leftist leader Kim Jong Ill and pursecutes Christians more than any nation on Earth because the Christians choose not to worship the official nothing religion of the state.

As you can clearly see, Atheism is the most violent religion in the history of mankind so yes, you are wrong.

Ash · #21 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Progressive

I dont care too much for spoon feeding people information they should already know but China and The USSR are and were Atheist worshipping nations who outlawed all other forms of religion in pursuit of their nothing fundamentalism and slaughtered 10's of millions of their own people achieving their unholy goal as well as China currently jailing and harvesting the organs of believers of Falun Gong who died in their jails for nothing more than their belief. NK currently deifies their Leftist leader Kim Jong Ill and pursecutes Christians more than any nation on Earth because the Christians choose not to worship the official nothing religion of the state.

As you can clearly see, Atheism is the most violent religion in the history of mankind so yes, you are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno

Yeah, I had suspected that these two regimes were what he had in mind. Like you said, however, they did not do it in the name of atheism. From what I understand, they did it to their (percieved?) political enemies to strengthen their positions of power. In other words, I agree with what you are saying here.

Atheism

Quote:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
a‧the‧ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
[Origin: 1580–90; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ism]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
a·the·ism (th-zm) Pronunciation Key
n.
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.

Communism

Quote:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
com‧mu‧nism [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2. (often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3. (initial capital letter) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4. communalism.
[Origin: 1835–45; < F communisme. See common, -ism]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
com·mu·nism (kmy-nzm) Pronunciation Key
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

So as the dictionary tells us, communism is not synonymous with atheism. Read my post previous to yours. Oh, and no, I am not wrong, you are.

Ianmac37 · #22 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Progressive

I dont care too much for spoon feeding people information they should already know but China and The USSR are and were Atheist worshipping nations who outlawed all other forms of religion in pursuit of their nothing fundamentalism and slaughtered 10's of millions of their own people achieving their unholy goal as well as China currently jailing and harvesting the organs of believers of Falun Gong who died in their jails for nothing more than their belief. NK currently deifies their Leftist leader Kim Jong Ill and pursecutes Christians more than any nation on Earth because the Christians choose not to worship the official nothing religion of the state.

As you can clearly see, Atheism is the most violent religion in the history of mankind so yes, you are wrong.

No. The religion of both the USSR and communist China was Communism. The millions that were killed were killed because they did not agree with or did things that were opposed to Stalin's and Mao's gods, Marx and Engels. Not because they were opposed to atheism. Mass murders are a very religious thing! We humans never seem to learn.

While there may have been a few Russians or Chinese who were killed over the question of religion versus state atheism, that number pales into insignificance to those who were killed to enforce communist economic dogma and personal power beliefs.

Mao, actually, was not an atheist. He was a follower of the philosophy of Confucius. And, Joe Stalin was originally enrolled in a seminary and was studying for the priesthood. In both countries, the church was allowed to function but was tightly controlled. Much like Cuba, or China, today.

panteth4H2o · #23 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Progressive

I dont care too much for spoon feeding people information they should already know but China and The USSR are and were Atheist worshipping nations who outlawed all other forms of religion in pursuit of their nothing fundamentalism and slaughtered 10's of millions of their own people achieving their unholy goal as well as China currently jailing and harvesting the organs of believers of Falun Gong who died in their jails for nothing more than their belief. NK currently deifies their Leftist leader Kim Jong Ill and pursecutes Christians more than any nation on Earth because the Christians choose not to worship the official nothing religion of the state.

As you can clearly see, Atheism is the most violent religion in the history of mankind so yes, you are wrong.

Hard to forget Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge too. (The Killing Fields)

panteth4H2o · #24 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno

So as the dictionary tells us, communism is not synonymous with atheism. Read my post previous to yours. Oh, and no, I am not wrong, you are.

But aren't many communists atheists? Don't many of them have a dislike for religion because it might clash with the interest of the state?

Dormouse · #25 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianmac37

The millions that were killed were killed because they did not agree with or did things that were opposed to Stalin's and Mao's gods, Marx and Engels. Not because they were opposed to atheism. Mass murders are a very religious thing! We humans never seem to learn.

Minor quibble, but LENIN was the god of Stalin and Mao. Leninism is a far cry from Marxist theory.

Dormouse · #26 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by panteth4H2o

But aren't many communists atheists? Don't many of them have a dislike for religion because it might clash with the interest of the state?

Indeed. It is with the fear of a competitor that the 'godless communists' revile religion. Marx said religion was the opiate of the masses. Lenin proposed replacing that opiate with communism. Same difference.

panteth4H2o · #27 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

BTW, it's just my personal opinion that many wars and atrocities have simply occurred out of greed and lust for power. Most people will use whatever means they can to attain it.

Ash · #28 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by panteth4H2o

But aren't many communists atheists? Don't many of them have a dislike for religion because it might clash with the interest of the state?

Yes and yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panteth4H2o

Don't many of them have a dislike for religion because it might clash with the interest of the state?

Yeah, that would imply a political agenda, not a religious one, now wouldn't it?

Ash · #29 (**permalink**) 10-17-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by panteth4H2o

BTW, it's just my personal opinion that many wars and atrocities have simply occurred out of greed and lust for power. Most people will use whatever means they can to attain it.

I would agree with this opinion of yours.

The Progressive · #30 (**permalink**) 10-18-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno

So as the dictionary tells us, communism is not synonymous with atheism. Read my post previous to yours. Oh, and no, I am not wrong, you are.

Im glad you took the time to read the definition but you forgot the fact that these Communist states were officially Atheist worshipping states just as the Monarchies of Europe were Catholic so you are still wrong my friend.

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