Your comparisons between George Bush and the Nazis are disgusting. I happen to agree with you on the subject of torture as a whole, but those comparisons are beneath contempt. Do some reading. Start with the Gulag Archipelago. Then read The Destruction of the European Jews by Raul Hilberg. Then read Iris Chang's stunning The Rape of Naking. Then start griping about Bush.

Unbelievable.

Your condescension and sarcasm are deeply appreciated, as is your supercilious attitude. It's actually "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II".

Sorry,Tim, but you missed the point. George hasn't killed nearly as many people, that's true, but what George HAS done is reintroduce the idea that torture and secret prisons are acceptable tools of a civilized people. And what's more, he has convinced the House and Senate to go along with him. Up until now the US has never abrogated the Geneva Convention by legalizing torture and the "disappearing" of people or suspended the right of habeus corpus. These first faltering steps into fascism are terrible because they are the first steps towards the horrors which you so rightly deplore. Remember: the Nazis started somewhere too, and I'll bet they started with somebody just as ethically deficient as George Bush.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Remember: the Nazis started somewhere too, and I'll bet they started with somebody just as ethically deficient as George Bush.[/quote]

The Nazis started as "protest" party of people like for example keepers of little shops, handcraftsmen etc, who had been severely hit by the world economic crisis beginning in 1929, as a party who promised to remove the burden of war reparations, the terms of Versailles, and also the Weimar republic. After war and politically and economically troublesome years Germans were longing for the peaceful , secure and "golden" times under the reign of emperor Wilhelm the second and many wanted the Nazis to more or less reerect the old reich.
And conveniently forgot who was responsible for the mess they were in.
In the beginning the Nazis went hand in hand ( the Harzburger front of 1931 (Wikipedia ) with other right wing nationalist and monarchist groups and parties bent to destroy democracy and replace it with something else.
Luckily America has not seen something comparable and therefore the comparison Bush /Hitler is often brought up, but never works.
Though I agree with your ethical judgement of Bush concerning torture etc.
Concerning the actual question of the thread i can cite both my grandfathers who were fighting for the german army as witnesses for the holocaust.
None of them was ever involved in any war crimes, but they saw and told me enough. one was memeber of a soldiers resistance group which smuggled Jews and other people in danger to safe places , provided weapons, hideouts etc. And both never got completely over their memories..

Your willingness to resort to insults and your insistence upon upholding this luldicrous and shameful "theory" is an indication that you do not intend to discuss this is a serious manner.

Voland
Its not about whether it had taken place or not, but whether 6 million Jews dying in the Holocaust was an exaggeration. After all, they keep changing the sign out in front of Auschwitz. First, it said 4 million Jews died there, then it quietly was replaced with a sign that claimed 2.6 million. Today, the sign claims only 1.5 million Jews died in Auschwitz, with serious discussions taking place about lowering that into the range of 700,000, yet the reductions never seem to make it into the claim of 6 million total."



After: One and a half Million



Source

Thank you for the information, Voland, interesting. I never said nor meant that George Bush was anything like Hitler in scale, but only that his direction and lack of ethical development are taking us down a road that is beginning to look very similar to the one followed by many fascist regimes.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Sorry you are so offended, Tim, but your response to me was supercilious and dripping with sarcasm and condescension, my noting those things hardly qualifies as an insult since YOU wrote the post. You should be glad that I was observant enough to recognize your insulting tone, it would have been disappointing if you had gone to the effort of writing it that way and I hadn't even noticed.

Simply stating that my "theory" is "luldicrous" (sic) and shameful doesn't address the issues that I raised. What are you objecting to? Have 14,000 people been disappeared, has he set up secret prisons, does he advocate torture, has he managed to get the House and Senate to give him the legal right to torture people (except mutilation and rape), and are we as a nation abrogating the Geneva Convention? Voland seemed to grasp the point of ethics that I was making.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

The original posted article was trash, period.

I also like how the thread was intended to talk about the slaughter of millions of Jews, picked up on Stalin, Japan and etc for they all were horrible travesties, and some how people still sneak Bush in. Apparently those people have no respect for those millions that were slaughtered back then.

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

Just about the same amout of credence I give to anything you might post. That is to say, none.

If I am understanding your post correctly, then I am one of the people you think have no respect for those millions....

Quite wrong, I am very concerned that George is taking us down the primrose path to the same kind of fascist Hell that resulted in the horrors of genocide we are discussing. Everyone of those examples of genocidal idiocy started small and grew huge because people didn't recognize it and crush it in its infancy. We still have that opportunity, let's use it.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Okay so lots of people have opinions. Not a big deal. For some reason to dispute this fact is considered Western sin that gets you a free trip to seven degrees of hell ... or however that mumbo jumbo works.

Anyways, I don't understand why people react with anger when people ask for an investigation.

I don't know what to say, if I were a Jewish leader or something like that, I would have already said "Fine! Have your damn investigation! Investigate it thoroughly! When all is said and done - please shut up about it so we can move on!

But for some reason, they continue to allow this disputed event in history to be challenged by many people.

Open the book to the Holocaust and any other details so people will shut up about it. I don't understand why this is frowned upon either. Discovery and education can only help people understand the Holocaust and a perfect opporitunity for people to understand the harmful effects of such evil deeds. It's a way for the next generations to get closer to these important things by allowing them to investigate and discovery the Holocaust on their own. It's important that this event doesn't remain a page in a school textbook but make it more relevant by allowing others to explore and understand this horrible event.

Once there's an open door policy on the Holocaust, mankind can only learn and grow from such failures and it douses the flames of doubt...

... or we continue to say "Shut up! It happened because we say so! If you doubt us we don't care!" ... I can already smell the harmony when this attitude is used.. don't you?

Why is this in the US politics forum? Dont we have a conspiracy theory forum yet?

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

There weren’t that many Jews back then: http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populs...ia/israelc.htm
I still believe there was a mass murder when they no longer could feed them though.

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

Are you implying that no sort of investigatory work was done? That the allied forces just strolled into axis controlled countries, took a quick glance around and said "Hmmm...1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.....looks like about, oh, lets say 6 million killed?"

This is a conspiracy theory. As is true with just about any conspiracy theory, no investigation will matter unless it comes to the results that the conspiracy theorists wish to hear. Anything else will be deemed 'misinformation' by the powers that be.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

It's pretty simple for those that understand the way the world works. The victors decide what is important and what is not. It may not be fair but it is the way things work.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu