Dilettante - you have now taken the first step in your investigations.

The new materials (200.000 documents) show exactly that the minority reports were right...and Roosevelt's claims that he did not know are wrong. All the information and most of his decisions have been recovered from secret documents and material obtained from abroad. At that time there was an overall decision that president and his nearest staff will not be criticized in the eyes of the people.

There was a conspiracy led by the president, evidence was destroyed and the truth was systematically hidden.

Please, read the recently discovered materials from the other links.

My opinion is that this was exactly like 911. An excuse to war - organized by the government.

Well yeeha!

I'm afraid that I am not particularly inclined to search additional documents for evidence of your theory. Here is why:

In an earlier post you stated the following:
"Here are the official Naval Court Hearing documents which reveal the facts very well and also the conviction of FDR".
Having actually looked through the Congressional report on the Investigation of Pearl Harbor I found no indication of any blame officially being placed on FDR. Infact, Congress concluded that he and his administration did everything possible to prevent war.
The quotes you provided came from a clearly labeled Minority Report and had no official authority what-so-ever.
There was no evidence at all, even in your quotes, of a trial or conviction of the President.

If you can point, specifically, to additional sources I'd be interested in reading them. But I am not willing to waste anymore time skimming hundreds of pages of documents.
If you have a source, please give me a brief quote demonstrating that FDR was convicted of a crime and then give me the link to the page with that specific quote on it (not to some enormous archive of documents).

The theory is interesting but thus far generally accepted history and, apparently, the Congressional investigation of '46 explicitly refute it. Without some sort of explicit, specific, credible evidence to the contrary (which I have not yet seen) I see no reason to believe that FDR conspired to make Pearl Harbor happen.

What all this shows is that, just like 9/11, there were lots of things that after the fact of the attack were clear indications the attack was about to take place.
But, in advance of the attack, these bits and pieces were scattered and no one was able to put them together.

This happens all the time, it's a very human thing to do.

Here's another example of the same kind of thinking.

When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, they completely ignored that large oil tank farm on a hill above the harbor. This tank farm contained the fuel that powered the US war effort against Japan.

If they had attacked that tank farm instead of the fleet, the US would not have been able to mount any signifigant naval actions in the Pacific for years, and Roosevelt would have found it almost impossible to get a declaration of war against japan for an attack on an oil depot, that would have produced no casualties.
In retrospect, the Japanese had their aircraft over a target that would have proved a decisive blow to the US fleet, and chose to attack a target of far less strategic value.
Were they in on the conspiracy too?

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

My understanding was that Roosevelt sent e.g. maps to Japan. Maybe they agreed what is going to happen. FDR also took all the modern ships and planes out from the base - removed anti-submarine nets. He gave a big number of orders the purpose of which was to protect Japanese and make them successful. The worst was that just shortly before the attack he sent a message saying that the position of Japanese is 6000 miles away. It was certainly quite a surprise as the attack suddenly came like ghost.

I am 100 % sure that there is very much similar things in 911. It is ridiculous to say that this kind of hi-jacking could be possible without governmental support. Not in Finland definitely - we have our defense forces and inteligence which certainly had picked off such terrorists. Maybe the planes were remotely controlled as this is a technology exactly in this type of Boeings (anti-hi-jacking tecnology allowing complete ground control of planes). There are too few Americans really thinking about 911 ... even if that was mentioned in PNAC. I know that the polls say 48 % from Americans think that the government had something to do with 911-event.

You talking about klinton and his bombing an aspirin factory and Iraq during the Monica issue?? What is interesting about this is that people died. But was klinton correct when he said he bombed Iraq for having WMD's?

If the answer is yes, then no issue here. Of course, I wonder if klinton got all of those WMD's in that one bombing attack...
If the answer is no, then klinton lied and people died.

Kramer

This is a good article on the new information released from P Harbor. It is amazing, how similar incidents were P Harbor and 911.

http://www.charlesmartelsociety.org/...arlharbor.html
Stephen J. Sniegoski holds a Ph.D. in American diplomatic history and is the author of several historical articles.


According to the U.S. Constitution, of course, the U.S. could not just make war because of the President's military commitment. Only Congress has the power to declare war. Throughout 1941, Roosevelt believed it was essential for the United States to enter the war against Germany, but he recognized that the majority of the American people opposed such a war even as late as the fall of 1941. Roosevelt needed an armed incident with Japan so as to have the public support to comply with his commitment to war.

Secretary of Interior Harold Ickes: For a long time I have believed that our best entrance into the war would be by way of Japan. . . . And, of course, if we go to war against Japan, it will inevitably lead to war against Germany.

Roosevelt's monumental problem was how to get Japan to attack the U.S. in some way in order to solidify the American public behind war. Secretary of War Henry Stimson: "The question was how we should maneuver them into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves." …the U.S. would not simply passively await a possible attack by Japanese but would actively "manuever" Japanese into attacking U.S.. Roosevelt thus sought to create an incident in which the U.S. would be attacked by the Japanese.

The argument runs that Washington intentionally kept the military commanders in Hawaii in the dark about the impending Japanese attack. This would ensure that no countermeasures were undertaken that might cause the Japanese to call it off. It would also preclude the possibility of the American military commanders launching a preemptive attack on the Japanese fleet, which could have muddied the Japanese culpability needed to forge a united American public in favor of war.

Short was required (by FDR) to allow the Japanese to commit the first "overt act." These restrictions essentially ruled out any effective defensive preparations. General Short interpreted this message as a call to counter sabotage, which required doing such things as bunching airplanes wing tip to wing tip, thus making them sitting ducks for a bombing attack. Short informed Washington of the steps he was taking, and no corrections were forthcoming. …Navy officials (in Washington) declared the north Pacific Ocean a "vacant sea" and ordered all United States and allied shipping out of this area. This, of course, was the region over which the Japanese task force would travel.

J. Edgar Hoover's claim that Roosevelt knew of the Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor. The evidence would seem to be clear that Roosevelt provoked the Japanese to attack the United States.

emphasis mine.

What are you trying to say about "anti-hi-jacking technology"? I didn't understand. Please try again.

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...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

Analyst is still around? I had thought he had left. Tired of being proved wrong all the time I had thought.

I had seen a thing on discovery channel where boeing was trying out planes that could be controlled from the ground in the event of a hi jacking. Air control could disable the plane in the air and fly it from the ground. But I was under the impression it was a long ways away. He must be yelping about something similar. He grasps at whatever he can to make 9/11 a conspiracy. Before he was saying the planes were holograms and there were bombs in the building. He can't even pick a conspiracy and stick with it.

__________________
Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.

"There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" - Pierre Trudeau

“No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale

In reply to the basic assertion of a US conspiracy involving the Pearl Harbor attack (which btw, was a perfect example of the idiocy of "pre-emptive strikes"), I think that one major piece of evidence contradicts it.

Pearl Harbor did not empower FDR to declare war on Germany. Ergo, what was the gain from this conspiracy?

No logic please, this is a conspiracy theory thread.....

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Analyst has claimed that the plan was to get Germany to declare on us...


Personally, I think Analyst is the lefts version of Kinetic.

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"Bring the boys back home!"--Pink Floyd

NFA JJG 42-95

Free People/Free Markets

Following the Path of the Beam

Haha nicely said.

__________________
Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.

"There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" - Pierre Trudeau

“No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale

Thanks

__________________
"Bring the boys back home!"--Pink Floyd

NFA JJG 42-95

Free People/Free Markets

Following the Path of the Beam

Seriously - we NEED a forum entitled "Twilight Zone"...

>Pearl Harbor did not empower FDR to declare war on Germany. Ergo, what was the gain from this conspiracy?

Please, read your own history. FDR promised to Churchil that he will take the responsibility to change the opinions of US people pro-war. There were several public discussions about how to do that. Germany and Japan had a strong mutual agreement on co-operation in war. FDR published even papers on so called "back-door to the European war" - and it was Japan. Germany avoided irritating USA as they had problems enough in Europe. After P Harbor Germany established a war against USA immediatelly - as concluded by FDR.

More than 80 % of Americans opposed the war in Europe - after P Harbor, FDR had full permission to do anything (as Bush after 911). And this is not a theory - even US Naval Court has recorded these and it is an official truth kept secret for 60 years. Now the documents have been released for some investigators... and classified again as the material was compared with the 911.

Billy - you have seen right thing that the same model of Boeing which was used in 911 indeed has an operative anti-hi-jacking system (entirely ground controlled piloting). We have seen it in a documentary film in our TV years ago. The test planes left an airport, travelled hundreds of kilometres and landed safely to another airport. This is not new technology. Actually, military un-manned planes use it daily - even cruise missiles use it and Boeing has made it a norm to this particular model (at first they announced that but later kept quiet). Such ghost planes were even mentioned in the descriptions of the military excercise in operation in 911.

>Billy: ...he was saying the planes were holograms...
Billy - the worst thing you can do in the forum is to put wrong words to the mouth of another one. It shows that you are not an honest person but a liar. If your knowledge is poor, don't try to draw others also to your mud hole.

I can say that if you want to humiliate somebody - compare him with "kinetic" - it is an automatic virus processor, which always finds the completely wrong answers.