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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
Completely agree with Russians!
Russians are just too afraid of Chinese people in Siberia. If they can overcome that anxiety, Russia and China shall have more cooperation.
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
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Yeah! Europe and America, those are the people Russia needs to be watching.
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
The USSR had only itself to blame on account
of its aggression of the 1939-40 Winter War for Finnish participation on WW2. From what I know, Finnish military action was limited to regaining territory siezed by the USSR in 1940. Had Finland done more it is possible that Murmansk would have fallen as well as Leningrad, with dire consequences since Murmansk was the primary Lend-Lease terminus throughout the war. Had Finland remained neutral and had it refused German transit in the north ( a big "if"- Sweden was pressured into allowing transit, and the Finns might also have given in), then the USSR's position in its northwest sector would have been vastly improved. The allegations that Germany and German military forces might be seen in a postitive light in Finland today concerns me. Nazi Germany should never be viewed in any light other than completely depraved. Also, from a practical view a Democratic Germany in 1939 might easliy have joined with several other sympathetic powers to forestall USSR aggression against Finland, or to repel it
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From the fury of the Northmen, Good Lord, deliver us. Last edited by USViking; 11-10-2006 at 11:55 AM. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
I thought everybody knew the Finns were not fighting the Soviet Union in 1941-44 because of Nazi ideas. Finland was a democracy fighting to regain territory seized from it by the communistic Soviet Union in the war of 1939-40. As a matter of fact, it was the Soviet Union who started the aggression in 1941 by bombing Finland.
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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that? Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
Well, I may sound cynical here, but I don't think anybody in WWII was fighting Germany because of the Nazi ideas. It was just about gaining lost territories, getting rid of occupation (Poland), not being occupied (UK) etc.
Of course, you may argue that the "Lebensraum" idea and the Superiority of the German Race were all Nazi concepts - but of course, we all understand what is meant here : antisemitism, racism, fascism, Führerprinzip ...
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La terre est bleue comme une orange. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
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and people of France and the UK were hostile to Nazi ideas, although this by itself this was not the cause of the war. It was Poland which was actually defending itself against attack. France and the UK did not enter the war on 9/3/39 either to regain lost territory, or to prevent being occupied themselves. They did so because they viewed unceasing expansion of Nazi Germany as ultimately threatening to their own interests. I also think revulsion against the conquest of weak countires by more powerful ones was a factor.
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From the fury of the Northmen, Good Lord, deliver us. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
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However, this is a different issue than the issue on why certain countries chose to join the German side of the war. Italy and Hungary joined Germany because these countries had leaders with ideologies close to that of Nazi-Germany. Finland joined Germany to get a chance to win territory back from the Soviet Union, but nobody in the Finnish leadership were close to being Nazi.
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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that? Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
Today is the Finnish Independence Day (est. 1917). There were some problems in our thinking in 1930s. There are Finnish speaking people (Karelians) just east of our border and there were some right-wing people in Finland who were dreaming to extend Finland to those areas, too. Maybe those ideas came up again 1942-44 when the Finnish Army had taken all the territories back which were taken in the Winter War (1939-40). Some politicians may have imagined that Germany will win the war and Finland can gain some areas in that occassion.
However, primarily Finland was fighting for its independence and asked help from many directions - only Germany helped. When the Soviet Army attacked Finland they had most modern US made artillery and even US made food. All those soldiers which crossed the Finnish border were carried back. And Finland was veru badly mistreated in the peace negotiations afterwards - we had to pay repetition ... huge amount of everything to USSR and western countries (incl. USA). This was only because of receiving help from Germany. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
You are partly right. The Karelian (Finnish speaking) people have lived both in Finland and in Russia for ages. When Finland got its independence from Russia 1917 Karelia was split (Finnish Karelia and Karelian Autonomic State of USSR). Actually the whole Russia is full of Finnish-related people (Fenno-Ugrians). In the Winter War the USSR took part of Finnish territory and the Karelians from that area moved to Finland - returned back home 1943 again and had to leave again. Soviet Army did not ever cross the Finnish border but we lost in peace negotiations as the whole western world was against us and gave free hands to USSR to rob us. Now Finland is according to several international statistics "best in the world" in many sectors (education, innovation, IT, corruption, social services, equality, environmental protection, liberty of media, etc).
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
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Karelia was part of Finland, its capital was Viipuri, or Vyborg. Some regions, as the Eastern Karelia was under Soviet rule. These regions were the ones some Finns wanted to claim in the continuos war. |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
Also,
As I understand it, there were actually three seperate parts to WWII for Finland: The initial Soviet attack (The Winter War), followed by Finland's alliance with Germany to regain its territory, followed by ther final stage where the Soviets used the Finnish Army as a proxy to drive-out remnants of the Wermacht. Is that more or less correct? Also, is Mannerheim today seen in Finland the way the textbooks portray him: George Washington and Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce rolled into one man? And what happened in the Baltic States during that time? I once read there was a guerilla war in Estonia, while Latvia and Lithuania were more willing to support the Germans. Sound correct, or is that just the American take on things? |
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Re: Through Soviet eyes.
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Slightly wrong, mostly right. Beginning for Finlands participation was the "Winter war", right after the Baltic nations were occupied. Next stage was the "Continuous War" where we allowed Germans to try and assault via Lappland. Finns knew full well that they could not advance in such conditions.. Finland was not an ally, but tied up to Germans because they sold material and grain. They wanted more than Finns were willing to do. Siege of st. Petersburg is a prime example. This phace of war ended when Finns were able to repell a massive Soviet assault in Karelian isthamus. Soviet forces were much larger than Allied forces in Normandy.. Last phace was the "Lappland War" Where younger Finnish soldieres were given a ridiculous timetable to drive Germans out. Soviets counted that we could not accomplish the task and thus, give an excuse to bring troops to Lappland. At first Germans retreated as quickly as Finns advanced, but Soviets demanded more blood, since the war seemed to go without casualties. Finns began real assaults and Germans retaliated by burning everything in Lappland to the ground. Peace was costly. Lappland in ruins, Karelia lost, 440 000 Karelians to re-settle, 365 billion €(in modern money) to be paid to the Aggressor in very little time. Quote:
Some say that his best ability was to select good men around him and others claim that he also stole the glory of the thoughts and actions of these men. Both are true. He was the head of the entire Finnish army in four wars and a President after the wars. Quote:
War ravaged over the Baltics, first teh Soviets, then the Germans, then the Soviets again. These days Estonians talk about long occupation, rather than being part of the Soviet union. Quote:
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