The conditions after the Versailles treaty was much, much harder than that of the Franco-Prussian war, and it wasn't followed by a depression of the same size.

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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned

MY CAPSLOCK KEY IS BROKEN LOL - Will be stumbled upon several times on the web.

Clash

Isnt it safe to say that ultranationalism was the root cause of world war two?
The answer is an obvious yes.
Seeing how you just conceded that ultranationalism was not a 'key product' of the treaty, you have now contradicted yo self

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Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

The reparations france had to pay were huge. The country was occupied and the national leader essentially held for ransom. Some of the most industrially valuable (iron and coal) territory the country had was sliced off by the victors. The territory also contains the most effective natural barrier between the two countries so France was permanently weakened by the loss.

If you want to blame the worldwide depression then blame the worldwide depression. Not the treaty.

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A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

The fact that France also has a history of antisemitism reinforces my point that the two countries faced near identical situations. So it is ridiculous to blame the treaty for hitler.

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A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

Also, the fact that their coal and iron was taken, which severely limited france's industrial capacity, which was already limited, showed just how effective territorial punishment could be, which had to be a motivating factor of Versailles.

However, the allies underestimated the virulence of German expansionism and were not harsh enough to subdue it at Versailles.

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Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

Then in that case you are correct; ultranationalist movments did exist before WW1. However, the differnce was that they were kept under wraps by the monarchy and had very little power. For example, the Hohenzollern monarchy was not ultranationalistic by anymeans, even though they led the 2nd Reich. They supported a unified Germany only if it was a Germany headed by Prussia. Every move Bismarck made towards unification was for Prussia, and not Germany. So, the ultranationalists didn't have anywhere near the same power before the war as they did after. This was brought about by the dissolution of the royal families of Germany (Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony), which were no longer around to keep those movements in check, by the treaty.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Tim, I don't think anyone is blaming the treaty for Hitler, but saying that without the treaty Hitler's rise to power would have been nigh on impossible.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Was it not the old elites who sought to use Hitler as a puppet to reverse the order of the Treaty?

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

Some certainly did. Doesn't that lend credence that, without the harsh effects of the treaty driving them, Hitler wouldn't have enjoyed their support? Overall, though, I believe they were trying to get their old status back. I mean, the Weimar Republic essentially annulled the nobility of the Kaiserreich.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

I guess it might. But we are talking under the assumption that the Second Reich did not have similar expansionistic plans as ultranationalist parties such as the German National Party.

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Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

And we would still be assuming if we said they did. Of course, that is in the spirit of this thread: "What if...."

EDIT: "They" should be "it" sorry.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Actually no. There is tremendous amounts of source evidence that suggests that statesmen and Germans of influence during the Second Reich embraced Pan-Germanic expansionism. One example being the Navy Leauge, and Admiral Tirpitz. Don't worry, i will offer a much better and thorough explanation of these sentiments and their relation to policy and more importantly foreign policy.

A summary of foreign policy under the second reich basically reads that Germany saw itself in an all or nothing situation. They either had to assert economic and territorial domination of Europe or face being the victim of a similar Russian, French, or British hegemony. The actions and war aims of Germany in WW1 were in line with this thinking.

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

I look forward to it.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

No. If I want to prove that without the treaty, the war in its actual form never had happened, I can do that by proving that those who were responsible for the war never had been in power without the treaty of Versailles. The treaty of Versailles was the tombstone of the Weimarer Republic. It was the death-sentence for the german democracy.

__________________
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"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
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- Tucker Bounds, Spokesman of the John McCain presidential campaign.

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No. And I never stated so.

__________________
"I think that gay marriage should be allowed."
- John McCain on an episode of Hardball, 2006, before the commercial break

"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
- John McCain on the same episode of Hardball, after the commercial break

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign."
- Tucker Bounds, Spokesman of the John McCain presidential campaign.

The straight talk express. You gotta love it.