not sure what you are arguing here...

could you elaborate a little more?

__________________

I haven't been arguing one point or the other, merely making observations but from the moment that Europeans discovered that native Americans had no concept of ownership they proceeded to shove them out of the way at every necessity. Once the native Americans tired of this it became necessary to remove them by force. Once blood was shed they became savages and subject to be treated like animals. You may as well have called it genocide, what occurred in Yugoslavia was no different. I understand it goes beyond your original premise but the history of native Americans reaches much further back the the Spanish, English and Americans. Which is merely an observation not meant to detract from your argument with Sulayman.

__________________
"It Happens"
Forrest Gump

ok i agree. you're at least responsible enough to recognize the treatment received from the europeans was close to genocide, at least.

i agree that their history predates their contact with the euorpeans. i am not sure what you suggest by this: that there may be things in their past which justify the treatment they received from the europeans? i am not saying that you are, but thats what it seems to me you might be suggesting.

i agree there are plenty of unknown variables in their past, and i have never held that they were all happy around the campfire when columbus showed up with his scalping armies. i believe they were a thriving civilization, in fact many civilizations, and the legacy of european impacy may differ from civilization to civilization. i contend, however, that there was a common thread to all of those legacies, an attitude of genocide based upon a cultural notion of supremacy and more sophistication.

__________________

I find you to be 100% accurate. It is human nature. Where does your error lie? I think you already know. Not all Europeans agreed. It's human nature that the offensive win. Simply landing here was an offensive act, they (as HUMAN BEINGS) came here on the offensive. It is commpon knowledge to this day, hundreds of years later, the best defense is a good offense.

They (we) came here to establish (peace), a place to live out the things we backed in the declaration of independence. There were things in the way though. Wolves, bears, and OTHER PEOPLE already living here. Of course we were wrong.

Have you not ever in your life met somebody that justifies their wrongdoing "because of what YOU did"???? Is that you? Do you demonize SOMEBODY so you can feel ok about what you are doing to them? You've done it or you know somebody that has done it to you. That is what happened here.

The indians were in the way of what we wanted, that was their real crime. So we demonized them and then killed them. NOT ALL OF US!!!!! There is not a LOT of history for our side (those of us that thought it was wrong) but some DOES exist. Very little, but there are notes, exerpts, very little for sure, but there WERE those that spoke out against what was being done.