Questions on palestine. - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

metalted · #1 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

The results of the 1948 war led to the creation of an israeli state, a Gaza occupied by Egypt, and Transjordan occupying the westbank.

Why didn't Egypt and Jordan establish a Palestinian state?

Egyptian Yassir arrafat established the PLO in 1964, while still under Egyptian and jordanian control, after 'discovering' Palestines ancient identity in 1967, do you think it was a coincidence that thier national identity was 'discovered' only after Israel took these lands following Jordans attempt to destroy Israel?

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Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the Sea!

From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.

After ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the 37mile x 12mile Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old capital city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years (1948-1967) following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.

Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian [in reality, Jordanian and Egyptian] Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!

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The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy.

Note: When people say Jordan (first called Trans-Jordan) is an Arab-"Palestinian" State, they are correct! Jordan accounts for 3/4 of Palestine's original land mass. Though they may call themselves "Jordanians," they are culturally, ethnically, historically and religiously no different than the Arab-"Palestinians" on the "West Bank." Even the flag of Jordan and the flag of the proposed 2nd Arab-Palestinian state on the West Bank / Gaza look almost identical. So, if the Arab-Palestinians and Jordanians think of themselves as one and the same, why should WE fall for the lie that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River are any different from the Jordanian Arabs on its eastern shore?

jordan flag

palestinian flag.

Donkey_Left · #2 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Generally it is considered respectful to cite sources which you quote.

metalted · #3 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

arafats bio Yasser Arafat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Palestine Liberation Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia PLO
Founded by the Arab League in 1964, its goal was the destruction of the State of Israel through armed struggle. It was initially controlled for the most part by the Egyptian government. The original PLO Charter stressed Israel's annihilation, as well as a right of return and self-determination for Palestinian Arabs, during Jordan's and Egypt's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, respectively. Palestinian statehood was not mentioned, although later the PLO adopted the idea of an independent state between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea.[2] More recently, the PLO officially adopted a two-state solution, with Israel and Palestine living side by side contingent on specific terms such as making East Jerusalem capital of the Palestinian state and giving Palestinians right of return.[3] although many Palestinian leaders, including Yasser Arafat and Faisal Husseini have declared their goal is still "liberation" of all of Palestine.[2][4]

Flags found - google images.

map of british mandate of palestine.

in depth history 1967 war.
The 1967 Six-Day War

condensed ideas History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps

metalted · #4 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Woa palestinian national anthem...

My country, my land, land of my ancestors
My country, my country, my country
My people, people of perpetuity
With my determination, my fire and the volcano of my revenge
With the longing in my blood for my land and my home
I have climbed the mountains and fought the wars
I have conquered the impossible, and crossed the frontiers
My country, my country, my country
My people, people of perpetuity
With the resolve of the winds and the fire of the guns
And the determination of my nation in the land of struggle
Palestine is my home, Palestine is my fire, Palestine is my revenge and the land of endurance
My country, my country, my country
My people, people of perpetuity
By the oath under the shade of the flag
By my land and nation, and the fire of pain
I will live as a fida'i*, I will remain a fida'i, I will end as a fida'i - until my country returns
My country, people of perpetuity.

fida'i = one who risks his life voluntarily; one who sacrifices himself; hence the word fedayeen.

Donkey_Left · #5 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

It's funny. A Palestinian guy I know at school insists that there is no Israeli nation.

metalted · #6 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

exactly my point. thats thier goal and intent.

Donkey_Left · #7 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Apparently not, since you missed mine.

metalted · #8 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

Apparently not, since you missed mine.

plenty of people here have argued against israels right to exist. this is my argument against that. but it is interesting that this friend of yours is the same guy you have been defending while accusing ME of being a racist.

Donkey_Left · #9 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalted

plenty of people here have argued against israels right to exist. this is my argument against that. but it is interesting that this friend of yours is the same guy you have been defending while accusing ME of being a racist.

This is not an argument asserting Israel's right to exist, it is an argument claiming that Palestine should not exist. While related, they are not, as hard as it may seem to believe, the same thing.

And what the fuck are you babbling about with the "same guy you have been defending" tripe? I was just offering a point of view that is essentially the opposite of the one here. You say that there is no such thing as a Palestinian. He says that there is no such thing as an Israeli.

I say that you are both full of shit.

metalted · #10 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

well the thing is, i DO want palestine to exist. as i want israel to exist.. i do not think theres one or the other... however to those people that argue against israels existance, here you are.. well no,, this is more an argument against the myth of the poor palestinian.

palestine the name itself is rather interesting... i was looking in the dictionary the other day, aparently it comes from the name Palaestina; romans renamed israel after they conquered it attempting to erase all traces of the historical land of the jews. a particularly rebellious people...
the word translates into province or territory.

Donkey_Left · #11 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalted

well the thing is, i DO want palestine to exist. as i want israel to exist.. i do not think theres one or the other... however to those people that argue against israels existance, here you are.. well no,, this is more an argument against the myth of the poor palestinian.

palestine the name itself is rather interesting... i was looking in the dictionary the other day, aparently it comes from the name Palaestina; romans renamed israel after they conquered it attempting to erase all traces of the historical land of the jews. a particularly rebellious people...
the word translates into province or territory.

And the word "America" comes from some random Italian dude's name. What's your point?

metalted · #12 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

peoples connection to the land.

Donkey_Left · #13 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalted

peoples connection to the land.

Which does not necessarily have anything to do with the name of the land...

metalted · #14 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

well it does if the connection is made up and fabricated destributed on massive scale to the people to rile them up to go to destroy israel for the arab world.

metalted · #15 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007

in general the theme of arab anger over israel in its early history to today has been shame over being beaten and ruled over by people they consider to be inferior in way, to them its like being beaten by a girl. so they never forgive and do anything they can do destory israel, some nations in arab world, most really have given up the quest... on a governmental level atleast..

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