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03-13-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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03-13-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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I understand your point and it's valid. Anyway the German soldiers that probably were involved in combat in Afghanistan until now were members of the KSK ( our special forces) and for them a medal is useless as they could never wear it anywhere, as it would directly identify them as KSK members (who are supposed to be anonym), as no other German soldier up until now, was involved in anything worth a EK.
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03-15-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
Is the Bundesverdienstkreuz not enough?
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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that? Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add.
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03-16-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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Well.... Wouldn't it be a thing if people get land and a house for their service 
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04-02-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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The use - and even the existence of - the military in Germany is a controversial issue, and there is widespread ambivalence among the population, for obvious historical reasons. Rather basic.
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04-02-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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". . . There is some irony in that, of course, as Germany is now a pacifist nation and would not fight under any circumstances that I know of. . . ." I pointed out that they have, citing the Balkans and Afghanistan and other 9.11 assistance. You replied: Quote:
This isn't the Cold War era. Much has changed over the past 20 years. In fact, it isn't even the same nation as the Cold War one except in formality given East Germany merged into the West German regime, and there was nothing pacifist about the East Germans. Sure, there are some Germans who are opposed to involvement generally, but that is true in the US and other nations. There are always peaceniks in any nation. But it was not ambivalent about rendering such assistance as cited (Balkans, Afghanistan and the WOT generally, etc). In fact, the Germans are still doing it in those theatres this many years forward from when they committed. It's been supportive on UN, NATO and EU defence obligations. It is not a pacifist nation.
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James Hoban. Irish Architect. Member of the Royal Dublin Society. Hoban designed and built the White House and based it upon the top exterior and interior two floors of Leinster House, then known as Kildare House, which is now the current Irish Parliament building. He was also a supervisory architect of the US Capitol Building. 
Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 04-02-2008 at 01:43 PM.
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04-02-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
Well, military actions used to be extremely controversial... now this is only accurate to fighting missions... it is quite commonly accepted to do stabilisation & nationbuilding abroad.
Especially UN missions have long been accepted. Though I must say, that since the Balkan crises and especially since Kosovo, military expeditions become a reality. Since the Balkans the Germany army is also in a process called "Transformation"... away from a "Verteidigungsarmee" towards a "Einsatzarmee". At the end of Transformation the Bundeswehr will have: 35.000 Intervention Forces ( for the Nato Respond Force) 70.000 Stabilization Forces ( for things like KFOR, ISAF,...) 147.500 Support Forces Due to this major change of the militaries organisation and objectives, the procurement of new vehicles has changed dramatically. As most unpopular subjects such projects are moving forward in a stealthy way... so... as long as Germans do not end up getting killed in high numbers or that they end up having killed civilians... the puplic will tollerate the missions... Basicly the Subject is not openly discussed.... it should be and Germans should become aware of the role they are getting in... BTW: Currently there are about 7500 german troops deployed abroad... in about 10 missions
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04-02-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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Neither an institutional memory of WWII aggression, nor any degree of "controversy" relating to the modern military, were anywhere in evidence. I certainly didn't pick up on any ambivilance. But I guess living in the shadow of the Iron Curtain for 40 years could shake the ambivilance out of any peoples. Of course the close ties between the German and American militaries, and Germany's other NATO allies probably softened whatever reticence still existed after you consider the very real feeling of our-army-is-necessary-for-self-preservation that existed during the Cold War. If we were having this discussion in 1951 I'd be inclined to agree with your points. In the modern day your argument is anachronistic at best. Oh...and as far as the OP is concerned, if the Germans wanted to bring back the Iron Cross or any other military decoration that was retired in the wake of WWII it would be just fine with me. The Germans are wonderful people, and their servicemen and women are no exception. Worrying about German nationalist aggression today is similar to not letting anyone from south of the Mason Dixon line join the American military because we're still harboring sour grapes over Civil War.
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04-03-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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You managed to thoroughly misunderstand my posts. If you can find any reference to "German aggression" in my posts, please let me know.
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04-03-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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I was assuming that that was the reasoning behind the comment you made, which I explain below. Quote:
When you say something like, "for obvious reasons", instead of stating the reasons that you feel the way you do you kind of leave yourself open to misinterpretation though. Don't you? What's obvious to you may not be obvious to me and I'm left to my own devices, and my own understanding of history, to decipher what you mean. I'm sure you'll be able to straighten this out though. Here's the post I responded to: Quote:
What do you mean by widespread ambivalance among the (German) population and to what do you attribute that precieved ambivalance? The only "obvious historical reason" that I can see which would adequately support such comments would be the long history of German nationalism, militarism, and aggression under the Deutsches Reich, Weimar Republic, and Third Reich. I can't think of too much else in German history that would leave such a scar on the German people as to render their military controversial or their views toward it ambivalent. If the existence of the military is a controversial issue then that controversy must arise from some degree of worry. That is why I used the word "worry" in my response to you. In all events, I think that explains what my interpretation of your post ammounted to and why I came to the conclusion I did. If you could just answer the two questions I asked you you'll be able to clear everything up. And I appologize for any misunderstanding on my part, or any offense you may have taken to it.
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04-06-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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It appears that our experience of Germany has been quite different. Those Germans I know are ambivalent about the use of German troops, following the experience of WWII and its aftermath. I have found this to be true regardless of age or sex. Many are committed pacifists; some are not, but are still cautious as to how and where German troops are committed. The comments of Germans on this forum provide evidence for my observations. This is neither surprising nor unexpected. Indeed, it is basic. You have met Germans in the military. I have not. Perhaps the German military is far more enthusiastic about troop commitment than the public in general. I find that surprising, but I cannot speak to it.
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05-18-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
Instead of Iron Cross - should not Germany be discussing how to recover US$80 billion it was cheated by Zionist thugs for the crime it could not have committed without the help of 150,000 German Jews and Zionist terrorist militia of Irgun???
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05-18-2008
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Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross
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Don't bump into your agenda on the way out - take it with you.
__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition
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