My response was to that portion of his quote, hence, why I focused on the injustice of WW1 and said I've already said it's a misunderstanding. You wanting to make me accept that argument because it was a misunderstanding between our posts is what is making you an "asshat". The other poster recognized our misunderstanding and I agreed with that.

he argued that my assessment of the argument was wrong. i disagreed.

who's hair has gone where?

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for fuck sake htperr. You knew what he meant. Stop being a prick.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

i don't want to make you accept anything. i was just defending my original assessment of the argument. i was then, i will now, i will tomorrow.

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you fellas are the one's throwing around the names and obscenities. just chill out.

let's progress the discussion here.

Was maat correct in his argument of a russian centrality as the cause of ww1?

would collective punishment towards the germans, beyond what occurred, been justified?

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1. Not sure, would have to see all of his evidence, from my current knowledge on the situation I would disagree.

2. No

It was more a question of practicality. After WW1, germany was heavily punished and was forced to take all the blame, and pay for everything. This ruined the morale of the german people so much, that, when a galvanizing leader, such as Hitler, came to power, he was able to convince everyone that the right thing to do was to become powerful; and get revenge. So, in order to prevent that, Germany was divided into four parts, this way, they wouldn't have to worry about Hitler Two coming and starting a World War III.

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"A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good."
-Thomas J. Watson

It is absurd to claim Germans didn´t pay for WW II:
The loss of about six million lives, the loss of about one third of the country with the remainig rest split in two parts for the decades ( and beeing effectively under occupation until 1990), cities , among them world treasures like Dresden reduced to rubble, the country devastated like never before in recorded history, approximetely fifteen million ( about a quarter of the entire population expelled from their homes in modern Poland or the Czech Republic and desparately heading westwards ( and between one and two million dying on the way) and it should not be forgotten that the long list of the Nazis victims also includes many courageous german anti-fascists who lost their lives fighting the regime or supporting prosecuted people and were tortured to death or perished in concentration camps.
The humanitarian price that the Germans themselves payed for Hitler was indeed horrific and luckily the Allies after WW II showed that they had learned a couple of lessons from Versailles 1918.

Well, Hitler was the leader of the largest single party, but he was never backed by a majority of all Germans. ( the NSDAP´s share of votes was significantly below 40 % in 1933, and that was a heavily rigged election, due to political terror from both Nazis and Communists) He was APPOINTED to the post of chancellor by the last president of the Weimar republic Paul von Hindenburg and step by step managed to establish his dictatorship after the parliament ( Reichstag) burning. And much more important than revenge for WW I was the Nazis managing to overcome the economic crisis that led to the acceptance of the regime. That and his enemies not beeing able to unite against him brought Hitler up on top. Enthusiasm to go war was rather little back then.
And by the way : Germany was divided into two parts, not four.

To answer the post .
The German's were not punished severely post WW2 because of how Hitler used Germany's weakness after WW1 because of the Treaty of Versailles (constituted by the West - Allies, to punish Germany severely because of WW1.
The treaty of Versailles backed Germany into severe debt and left the doors wide open for Hitler to gain power .
He appealed to the Germany people on the basis that Germany could be strong and we that they needed to fix the country rharharhhra, which he did. Then he built up and up with power and forced the final solution rharharh the end.

As we can see because of past history the allies didn't want to put Germany in this state of turmoil once again and leave it's doors wide open for attack (politically :]) by some insane mastermind fantastic public speaker who would win the hearts of the German people.

xD

Germany had at least two referendums on Hitler after he assumed the dictatorship and he got well over 90% support in both of them. As far as two parts vs. four, you seem to forget the French and British sectors (granted they were American allies).

As for your previous point, I agree, Germany suffered enough during the war, punishing them afterwards would have been overkill. Although, they suffered unintentionally a great deal until they threw off allied command of their economy.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

You say it : AFTER he assumed the dictatorship. Do you seriously believe the Nazis allowed ANY democratic vote after sitting firm in the saddle ?
Which ones are you reffering to by the way ?

This was one of them:


I believe Hitler got 97% support in that "non-binding" referendum. Of course, Jews weren't allowed to vote.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

Your link does that not work. But again : Do you seriously believe that such referenda ( like for example "asking" the Austrians if they wanted to join the Reich in 1938) were really a free choice under the Nazi regime ? Of course not.