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  #226 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
htperr6565's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
The voice of doom

 
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: The Glorious Southlands of the United States
Posts: 3,457

United_States     Georgia_state

Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
You are good at judging information without reading it. Is this how you concluded that there is no NWO conspiracy? Let me guess, you read one piece somewhere and you let that totally change your beliefs.

On May 4, 1993, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) president Leslie Gelb said on The Charlie Rose Show that:

"... you [Charlie Rose] had me on [before] to talk about the New World Order! I talk about it all the time. It's one world now. The Council [CFR] can find, nurture, and begin to put people in the kinds of jobs this country needs. And that's going to be one of the major enterprises of the Council under me."
I don't 'read pieces.' I study evidence, i study historical arguments, i study human nature.

your post above doesn't make much sense.
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  #227 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,330

   
Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

In California, employers are required to maintain a form of fractional reserve account for unemployment purposes.

I think the employee should be allowed to pay half of that (tax) as a form of market based metric and equity since it would also form a more tangible, market-based metric, for at-will employment purposes and any privileges and immunities reserved to the people.
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  #228 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,221

   
Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
It is certainly unconstitutional to give US tax dollars from people who work to people who are not working.
No, you just don't approve of it. The reality is that the government can give U.S. tax dollars to whomever it pleases, as long as there are no strings attached, and sometimes even when there are.
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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,330

   
Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Providing for the general Welfare of the United States implies income transfers. What basis is there for anyone complaining about taxes, if they are free to quit and go on unemployment, at-will?

I think the line of reasoning concerning income transfers from people who have more money to people who have less money, is merely rhetoric and propaganda from those of the opposing viewpoint. Any form of Capitalism requires capital to function. Income transfers can ensure that capital circulates.
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  #230 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
htperr6565's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
The voice of doom

 
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Location: The Glorious Southlands of the United States
Posts: 3,457

United_States     Georgia_state

Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Providing for the general Welfare of the United States implies income transfers. What basis is there for anyone complaining about taxes, if they are free to quit and go on unemployment, at-will?
why are you so hung up on this 'at-will' unemployment? can't you see the obvious problems that might lead to? the system is abused enough as it is...
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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
Secretary of State

 
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Location: US, California - federalist
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Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

How can there be any problems of abuse, if it conforms to at-will employment doctrine and state at-will employment laws?

The system we have now is prone to abuse. We can all agree with that.
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
htperr6565's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
The voice of doom

 
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: The Glorious Southlands of the United States
Posts: 3,457

United_States     Georgia_state

Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
How can there be any problems of abuse, if it conforms to at-will employment doctrine and state at-will employment laws?

The system we have now is prone to abuse. We can all agree with that.
ok, describe what it is you are talking of here. What exactly is 'at will unemployment compensation, and how could it not be abused? How can it be up to someone to go on unemployment, at any time of his choosing, and that not be abusable?

'splain yoself.
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
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Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

It is only abuse-able to the extent at-will employment is abuse-able. How would it be abused, if anyone who claims to be "naturally" unemployed, could collect unemployment compensation?

By not following at-will employment doctrine or state at-will employment laws better, we are enabling the parent of revolution and crime, for "free".
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: AKRON
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Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
No, you just don't approve of it. The reality is that the government can give U.S. tax dollars to whomever it pleases, as long as there are no strings attached, and sometimes even when there are.
Then there are basically no limits on government like I was arguing in another thread. You are basically admitting, right now, there are almost no limits on government. Do you even realize this?

Think of the power of being able to give 500 billion dollars a year to whomever you want.
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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
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Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by htperr6565 View Post
I don't 'read pieces.' I study evidence, i study historical arguments, i study human nature.

your post above doesn't make much sense.
And what have you presented in this thread as evidence?
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: AKRON
Posts: 4,679

   
Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by htperr6565 View Post
ok, describe what it is you are talking of here. What exactly is 'at will unemployment compensation, and how could it not be abused? How can it be up to someone to go on unemployment, at any time of his choosing, and that not be abusable?

'splain yoself.
Sucker.

You are asking the most obtuse person on Earth to "splain" himself? Good luck.
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
Then there are basically no limits on government like I was arguing in another thread.
Not true. The power to spend money does not encompass all powers. I went over that in considerable detail already in this thread.

There are also many affirmative restrictions, things that the government is explicity forbidden to do.

It's exactly as I said. You say you want limited government, but what you really want is minimal government, and in a modern industrial society that's not possible. It could only work as long as we remained a simple, agrarian, mostly-rural society. As we industrialized, it became increasingly inadequate to hold the nation together, and it failed altogether in the 1860s. The minimal government that Jefferson wanted ceased to exist after (or actually during) the Civil War. It isn't coming back because it can't.
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  #238 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
htperr6565's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
The voice of doom

 
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: The Glorious Southlands of the United States
Posts: 3,457

United_States     Georgia_state

Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
And what have you presented in this thread as evidence?
the discussion has yet to approach reality, so evidence has not been a factor
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  #239 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
daddio's Avatar
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jun 2008
Location: the south
Posts: 8,829

United_States     Virginia

Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
Not true. The power to spend money does not encompass all powers. I went over that in considerable detail already in this thread.

There are also many affirmative restrictions, things that the government is explicity forbidden to do.

It's exactly as I said. You say you want limited government, but what you really want is minimal government, and in a modern industrial society that's not possible. It could only work as long as we remained a simple, agrarian, mostly-rural society. As we industrialized, it became increasingly inadequate to hold the nation together, and it failed altogether in the 1860s. The minimal government that Jefferson wanted ceased to exist after (or actually during) the Civil War. It isn't coming back because it can't.


The limted govt that was the compromise that the Constitution represents was shattered intentionally by Lincoln who never rested in pursuing his Whig goals. The nation was intentionally split assunder, it was no accident of progress, only blind ambition.
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  #240 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: AKRON
Posts: 4,679

   
Re: Constitutional Law: "To Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
Not true. The power to spend money does not encompass all powers. I went over that in considerable detail already in this thread.

There are also many affirmative restrictions, things that the government is explicity forbidden to do.

It's exactly as I said. You say you want limited government, but what you really want is minimal government, and in a modern industrial society that's not possible. It could only work as long as we remained a simple, agrarian, mostly-rural society. As we industrialized, it became increasingly inadequate to hold the nation together, and it failed altogether in the 1860s. The minimal government that Jefferson wanted ceased to exist after (or actually during) the Civil War. It isn't coming back because it can't.
Well, I once again thank you for the discussion, I have enjoyed it. It seems we are never going to find much common ground, since you believe that government can give money to whomever it wants and I do not.
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