What are you trying to tell me? That you are OK with colonizing populated areas and driving people off their homeland and that you don't think that the Lebensraum ideology is something which is disgusting and unethical? And all this because people already have done worse? If you like the finger pointing game, how many indians were murdered by your ancestors again? 10,20,30 million? Does this make the holocaust with only 6 million innocent victims ignorable or less horrific? I don't think so.

Your argument that it's not national socialism because someone else has done worse is ridiculous. The zionist agenda is in large parts identical to the agenda of the Nazis. Both believe to be part of a superior race which has the right to exterminate entire peoples and occupy their homeland. The german Ubermensch was superior due to his genes, the jewish Ubermensch is superior due to his relationship to god. But no matter why he is a Nazi or which flag he flies, a Nazi remains a Nazi. And I won't ever stop calling him a Nazi.

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Im Grabe schlummert ein neues Morgenrot.

Well, as usual the Israel haters can't refute the documentation and continue to rely on spamming threads with their completely unsubstantiated nonsense propaganda.

Moving on, here an interesting history of the area that pretty much sits alongside the premises set out in the OP:

Palestine:

It has a fairly comprehensive history of the area and the politics right up to before WW I. Chapters on the 19th century and the settlements and colonies are worth noting for the time periods set out in the OP. I won't cut and paste excerpts, as they are optically scanned and I don't feel like typing out long pages, but it is a PDF download that doesn't take long, and should be read in its entirety. There is not a lot of Arab cultural influence to be found, outside of the occasional local warlord here and there; most of the building was done by Turks like Sulieman during the infrequent periods of enlightenment and development.

Yes, despite the diversity of those reporting their travels, the Jew haters will claim they are all some sort of cabal and in league with each other, despite the time and nationality differences of the various reporters. They can't find enough Arabs displaced by the colonization worth mentioning. The colonizers even built their own suburbs and cities so as not to displace them. The cognitive dissonance is hilarious; first they claim there is this dense population of Arabs, and somehow these tiny populations of unarmed immigrants Jews displaced millions of them somehow, apparently by stealing it from them. It's KKK stuff, fatuous on its face.

What is also of note is the complete absence in these histories of any 'Palestinian People'; they invariably considered themselves Syrians. Most travelogues in the 19th century also consider Beriut as part of 'Palestine', which makes sense when you consider that the 'Palestine' of today was a district of the province of 'Greater Syria' and usually administered from Damascus, when it wasn't being decimated by clashes with Egypt and Arabs.

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"The real question of life after death isn't whether or not it exists, but even if it does, what problems this really solves." - Ludwig Wittgenstein

"A day without sunshine is, you know, night."- Shannon

Indians didn't recognize property rights. They should have. Some did and assimilated into American society. Most of the Indian population was killed off by European diseases, not genocide.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

i am faced with a horrible dilemma. i must either believe everything picaro or suleyman says or remain a jew hater.

both options go against my desire for reason and truth.

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Maybe not in the sense of having court houses and registered deeds, but they were very much aware of territorial control, and conscious enough of it to sell it.

And they killed each other off as well. They were hardly innocent little Hobbits, and they certainly weren't corrupted by Europeans; they were active and knowing participants in the politics of the day.

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"The real question of life after death isn't whether or not it exists, but even if it does, what problems this really solves." - Ludwig Wittgenstein

"A day without sunshine is, you know, night."- Shannon

yeah totally. they weren't hobbits, ergo they deserved it.

indians were killed off through 300 years of theft. PERIOD.
HINT: this is not they mythology forum.

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I am not only calling him a Nazi, I also explained why he is a Nazi. And if someone who spreads "misinformation" in order to implement or justify a Lebensraum ideology is not a Nazi, then a lot of the people who were executed in Nuremberg in 1948 deserve to be rehabilitated, as well.

You would think a German would know what a nazi is. There are no real nazis left today. You simply use the word to insult people you disagree with.

I haven't justified anyone's lebenraum. I beleive in a two nation settlement.

Regarding your hysterics: of course there is only one historical lebenraum argument and that is the one that caused your grandparents to kill some fifty or sixty million innocent people.

Reductio ad Hitlerum or Godwin's Law. You should look them up.

Picaro - Yes, despite the diversity of those reporting their travels, the Jew haters will claim they are all some sort of cabal and in league with each other, despite the time and nationality differences of the various reporters. They can't find enough Arabs displaced by the colonization worth mentioning. The colonizers even built their own suburbs and cities so as not to displace them. The cognitive dissonance is hilarious; first they claim there is this dense population of Arabs, and somehow these tiny populations of unarmed immigrants Jews displaced millions of them somehow, apparently by stealing it from them. It's KKK stuff, fatuous on its face.


Jew hatred is an interesting phenomenon in itself. I don't think any other logical abberation has persisted through time with such tenacity. Since most caucasian anti-semites today live in post-Christian Europe it is impossible to attribute their hate to simple religious bigotry. I'm at a loss to explain it.

perhaps its a myth that you find convenient.

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Anti-semitism is a myth?

some assertions of it are, yes.

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There certainly is racism against Jews by some people.

However, there are plenty of people who are critical of zionism, and could even be classified as anti-zionist, who aren't racist against Jews. Unfortunately, the pro-Israel contingent loves to label them as anti-semitic, which is analogous to bringing up racism every time a republican is critical of Obama's policies.

The force that compells modern anti-semites to justify their alignment with terrorists is not a myth. It is real, living, irrational hatred deeper than simple bigotry.

However, there are plenty of people who are critical of zionism, and could even be classified as anti-zionist, who aren't racist against Jews. Unfortunately, the pro-Israel contingent loves to label them as anti-semitic, which is analogous to bringing up racism every time a republican is critical of Obama's policies.

It is possible to be critical of zionism as an idea without siding with the forces of terrorism in Palestine and all over the Arab world. That is not what we see today however, not in the academy nor in the press.

First of all good to hear that you believe in a two nation settlement and it's my hope that the extremists on both side, one day will believe so too.

Just as a side note:
By the way interesting ww2 body count of yours; as a German I'm close to take it as an offense.

I mean apart from the real Nazi victims (Jews/gypsis/political dissidents/ POW), Im not willing to accept full blame for the millions of death that died, because their governments decided to oppose us instead of surrendering fast and easily.

They had a choice, decided to fight and so got what they deserved by doing so. For example it's not my country's fault that Stalin the useless butcher decided to throw millions of his own people in human waves attacks against the Wehrmacht and thus driving up the body count.

It's not my country's fault, that the Brits haven't prefented that 3 million Indians/Bengalis starved in 1943/44 due to a famine worsend by "exports" to win ww2 and so on.

Blame us for what we did, not what other fuckheads caused in their struggle against us.

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"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes