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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: USA
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Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
It wasn't clear to me until I got on the internet in the mid 1990's that leftist support for Palestinian terrorism was buttressed by a large helping of anti-Semitism. Before the internet I was simply too isolated to see it. I was niave enough to think that anti-semitism was on its way to the ash heap of history.
It was experienced a major revival beginning when the Israelis defeated invading Arabs yet again in 1967. There was a major book written about anti-semitism on the left in 1968, by a French Leftist. Naturally it was ignored in the Leftist press and the right wing press as well, but it was an excellent book. I lost my copy of it in the late 70's, unfortunately, but I can see if I can find the exact title and author's name, and few quotes for you.

I was in college from 1971 to 1975, and again in in 1982 through 1986, so I was well aware of it's beginnings and it's growth here on American campuses and academics, especially in the Journalism and Arts depts., mostly spread by the attention whore and pseudo-scholar Chomsky and his cult followers. There is now little difference between the 'Peace Left' and neo-Nazis on the issue any more; they are interchangeable. They cite each other these days.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 825

   
Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by htperr6565 View Post
yeah totally. they weren't hobbits, ergo they deserved it.

indians were killed off through 300 years of theft. PERIOD.
HINT: this is not they mythology forum.
no its not, so where did you get 300 years?no its not, so where did you get 300 years?
Why doesn't the ignore feature also work with quotes?

In any case, here's one example of Indian politics long before Europeans were ever here in any numbers :

Quote:
Unfortunately for the French and their hopes for the fur trade, the St. Lawrence west of Quebec was a war zone and had been this way for at least 50 years before their arrival. It was a disputed area claimed by the Iroquois, Huron, Algonkin, and Montagnais. After listening to the complaints of his trading partners against the Iroquois, Champlain decided in July, 1609 to accompany a mixed Algonkin, Montagnais, and Huron war party against the Mohawk. In a battle fought at the north end of Lake Champlain, the Iroquois had their first experience with French firearms, and the French had found themselves a new and dangerous enemy. After this French-assisted victory, the Huron signed their first trade agreement with Champlain. The destruction of a Mohawk fort on the Richelieu River the following year helped drive the Iroquois south and opened the upper St. Lawrence to French trade. The French impression of the Huron was not favorable at first, and with their villages so distant, they were inclined to focus on their trade with the Algonkin. However, this soon changed after Étienne Brulé visited the Huron villages in 1611 and remained through the winter. He learned the Huron not only had better fur than the Algonkin and Iroquois, but access through trade with other tribes to areas of even higher quality. If the French had doubts about siding with the Huron against the Iroquois, they ended right there, and in 1614 a formal treaty of trade and alliance between the French and Huron was signed at Quebec. The following year, Champlain made the long journey to the Huron villages and, while there, joined a Huron-Algonkin attack on Oneida and Onondaga villages to the south in upstate New York. After 1616, the Huron were the middlemen for the French fur trade with the Nipissing, Ottawa, and Algonquins in the western Great Lakes.

The French alliance with the Huron and Algonkin forced the Mohawk to abandon the St. Lawrence Valley in 1610. This setback proved only temporary, since the Mohawk were soon able to trade with the Dutch on the Hudson River. Understanding the advantage in weapons the French trade gave their enemies, the Mohawk jealously guarded their trade with the Dutch. After wars with the Susquehannock (1615) and the Mahican (1624-28), they emerged as the dominant Dutch trade partner. Unfortunately, the Iroquois homeland did not not have many beaver, and in attempting to supply the Dutch, the Iroquois quickly used up what little they had. Dutch attempts to bypass them and gain access to the St. Lawrence trade through the Mahican had only intensified the dilemma and had led to the Mohawk war with the Mahican in 1624. However, their victory over the Mahican had merely eliminated a rival and did not provide them with access to more fur. The Huron homeland had a lot of beaver in the beginning, but it also became exhausted from trade with the French. However, the Huron easily overcame this through trade with tribes to the north and west. Surrounded by enemies, the Iroquois had no such opportunity, and threatened with the loss of their trade position with the Dutch, they desperately needed the Huron to supply them with fur, or at least allow them to hunt outside their homeland. The Huron would not allow either of these things. Their fur went directly to the French, and the Huron were powerful enough to keep Iroquois hunters confined to their own lands.
Huron

Bold added by me.

As we can see, they had developed forts and were engaging in wars of extermination and slave hunting before Europeans got here, and continued to do so after their arrival. There isn't much in the way of evidence for 'The Gullible and Innocent Noble Savage Duped By The Conniving, Fork Tongued Evil Whitey' myth.

Disease isn't genocide, except in the ideological fever swamps.
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Last edited by picaro; 10-15-2009 at 08:25 PM.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009
City Mayor

 
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Dixie
Posts: 197

   
Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Speaking of this Indian war, eventually the Huron Confederacy was nearly exterminated by the Iroquois by 1650. They didn't need white men to teach them to hate each other.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009
htperr6565's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
The voice of doom

 
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: The Glorious Southlands of the United States
Posts: 3,457

United_States     Georgia_state

Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
Originally Posted by picaro View Post
Why doesn't the ignore feature also work with quotes?

In any case, here's one example of Indian politics long before Europeans were ever here in any numbers :



Huron

Bold added by me.

As we can see, they had developed forts and were engaging in wars of extermination and slave hunting before Europeans got here, and continued to do so after their arrival. There isn't much in the way of evidence for 'The Gullible and Innocent Noble Savage Duped By The Conniving, Fork Tongued Evil Whitey' myth.

Disease isn't genocide, except in the ideological fever swamps.
hep, huron and iroquois fought eachother, ergo there is no way that whites murdered natives.

many native tribes, including the cherokee, had adapted to the european diseases by the 1800's, and population was actually on the rise. that shattering suleyman's simplistic red herring.

also, when the spanish herded natives into slave camps, it was no surprise that disease ran rampant. remember, by 1500, the plague had taught europeans the consequences of many humans in close confinement and the spread of disease.

does one think they were surprised when the indians fell victim to disease whilst enjoying the civilized nature of europe's slave camps?
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: USA
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Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulayman View Post
Speaking of this Indian war, eventually the Huron Confederacy was nearly exterminated by the Iroquois by 1650. They didn't need white men to teach them to hate each other.
Yes. There is no telling how many tribes were wiped out before Europeans began recording the relations and trade with Indians. And, on the other hand, some smaller tribes were saved from total extinction by the interference of the Federal government, some going on to become pretty wealthy; the Osage were down to some 200-300 members and facing being wiped out by the Souix and other Plains tribes until falling under U.S. protection. They eventually ended up on a reservation that happened to have a lot of oil under it and they became one of the richest tribes per capita in world history for a long while during the Oklahoma oil booms.

It's worth noting that the U.S. government implemented vaccination programs for Indians almost immediately after the smallpox vaccine was discovered, in the 1830's or so; hardly the actions of ravenous white devils intent on genocide.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009
htperr6565's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
The voice of doom

 
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: The Glorious Southlands of the United States
Posts: 3,457

United_States     Georgia_state

Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
Originally Posted by picaro View Post
Yes. There is no telling how many tribes were wiped out before Europeans began recording the relations and trade with Indians. And, on the other hand, some smaller tribes were saved from total extinction by the interference of the Federal government, some going on to become pretty wealthy; the Osage were down to some 200-300 members and facing being wiped out by the Souix and other Plains tribes until falling under U.S. protection. They eventually ended up on a reservation that happened to have a lot of oil under it and they became one of the richest tribes per capita in world history for a long while during the Oklahoma oil booms.

It's worth noting that the U.S. government implemented vaccination programs for Indians almost immediately after the smallpox vaccine was discovered, in the 1830's or so; hardly the actions of ravenous white devils intent on genocide.
yep, if they gave vaccines, there is no way that racial hatred led to land theft and forced deportations with death rates similar to the bataan death march, there is no way that california legislatures referred to indians as animals and referenced a war of extinction, there is no way that andrew jackson ordered the murder of indian women and children, and defended the killing of natives in front of congress in an eerily analogous manner as did adolf hitler a century later in front of his reichstag, citing 'historical progress'

nope, so long as we find historical examples that can be generalized into what we want to represent the narrative as a whole, we are fine. we are buff little scholars. we can simply ignore anything to the contrary. isn't history fun?
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009
City Mayor

 
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Dixie
Posts: 197

   
Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
Originally Posted by picaro View Post
It's worth noting that the U.S. government implemented vaccination programs for Indians almost immediately after the smallpox vaccine was discovered, in the 1830's or so; hardly the actions of ravenous white devils intent on genocide.
I wouldn't doubt that there are some here who buy into the old idea that the US Government or its agents infected certain native villages with small pox blankets. Seems its always popular with Native America Studies departments. I always get a chuckle out of that one.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2009
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 825

   
Re: Land In Palestine After The Ottoman Land Reforms of 1865-1871

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulayman View Post
I wouldn't doubt that there are some here who buy into the old idea that the US Government or its agents infected certain native villages with small pox blankets. Seems its always popular with Native America Studies departments. I always get a chuckle out of that one.
Here's a thread on it, a couple of years back. The 'Brett Golden' poster is none other than Glenn Miller of VNN fame; I guess he didn't think his flunkies here were doing a good enough job of warning us about 'The Joooooooos!!!!' and decided he had to come over himself:

Native American genocide?

The smallpox blanket myth is covered in post 167, for my part; it's an old argument for me.

The smallpox blanket myth was revived by Ward Churchhill, the fraud who got a University job under false pretenses, much like Norman Finklestein claiming to be a 'Middle Eastern scholar' and yet doesn't speak a single Middle Eastern language, nor is able to read one either, living or dead, and then claims he's been denied tenure 6 times because 'the Jooooos are out to get me!!!!!'. At least they got his number early, unlike U of Colorado's looking into Churchill until he had already influenced thousands of gullible seat warmers and published a lot of swill under the cloak of 'peer reviewed scholarship'.
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"The real question of life after death isn't whether or not it exists, but even if it does, what problems this really solves." - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Last edited by picaro; 10-17-2009 at 01:12 AM.
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