Thread: maps of old empires

Originally Posted by Stapo

I don't know whether it's the best location for it, but here's a map including Adrianople- the present Turkish city of Erdine- as it has the distinction of being the most fought over city in the world, Valens's (Roman Empire 378AD) fatal reverse being one of fiftheen major battles or sieges that have taken place there just in short of 1700 years.






Some argue that this battle was more fatal to the Roman empire than any other defeat it had suffered in it's long history and that near Adrianople the whole Barbarian invasion of the empire got it's momentum eventually at least to cripple the West Roman Empire.

Well, I would not say that. The Avars and the Slavs ( Bulgars later) whom were offshoots of the Ostro-Goths whom settled there after the battle were soundly defeated by Justinian in the 500’s, by Heraclius again in the 600’s etc.

The real lesson and historical factor here was the eclipse of the here to fore arm of decsion, the branch upon which battles had been fought and decided byall national armies ( aside from the Parthians), the infantry.

The change to mounted forces as the arm of decision ala the Cataphract, Knights etc. was an event that changed the course of how armies were built and how they fought for centuries there after.

That 'verdict' of Adrianople was turned around at the battle of Crecy. Though there were other examples of infantry defeating armies based on cavalry forces, the battle of Tours for instance in the early 700’s, infantry really became predominant again after Crecy, and until this day.

I can't believe I only just found this thread! Awsome guys, sorry if these have been posted before, they're from my three main areas of historical study; Aincent Rome/Greece, Britian 330-1066 and Byzantium...

The Byztanine Empire (or the Roman Empire as they'd have prefered) at its hight under Justianian and the reconquest. A genius, but unfortuntly one who massively overextended his forces and sowed the seeds of Byzantiums fall by relying on Egypt for its food supply.;



In 1020, just after the loss of Palastine and the subsequent attempts to regain the holy land (which weakened it futher and prevented a proper defence of the Balkans and Asia Minor). basil the 2rd was, I think, the last great emporer until Commodius



They rallied a bit, until the 4th Crusade betrayed them on the urging of Venice and took over constantiople. TBH it had been doomed for hundreds of years, but the splits meant that it spent 200 years tyring to pull itself back together...


After this it was slowly driven on, clinging on due to deplomacy... As you can see many of the sucessor kingdoms still survived at this point.

And finally the end, basically taken as a glory possesion as its political significance was gone by this stage. However the fall was not so simple, dispite being defended by just 7,000 men against around 80-100 thousand Ottomans the walls held for 2 months until the Ottomans finally got in;

a map of constantinople during this period

I would like to revive this very nice thread for all to enjoy.

There is nothing more interesting to me than maps of old empires--an excellent way to learn history.
Good topic!

Originally Posted by GeorgeLaw

There is nothing more interesting to me than maps of old empires--an excellent way to learn history.
Good topic!

Please feel free to add to the thread if there are any periods in history that have special interest for you.

Not sure if the "Tabula Peuteringiana" is already included. I just stumbled across a copy in Trier, an ancient roman city on the Moselle in modern Germany, in a museum. It is the only surviving map of the roman empires road network and was last revised in the fourth century. It covers Europe, parts of Asia and North Africa, and is stored in Vienna today. The original is lost in history, but the preserved replica is a medieval copy made by a monk in Alsace ( modern France)...

Tabula Peutingeriana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Voland

Not sure if the "Tabula Peuteringiana" is already included. I just stumbled across a copy in Trier, an ancient roman city on the Moselle in modern Germany, in a museum. It is the only surviving map of the roman empires road network and was last revised in the fourth century. It covers Europe, parts of Asia and North Africa, and is stored in Vienna today. The original is lost in history, but the preserved replica is a medieval copy made by a monk in Alsace ( modern France)...

Tabula Peutingeriana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's like a weired road network diagram.
Oh good old roman empire. How we (western civilization) miss thee.

Thanks Voland - I had not heard of that. It was only on display for one day? I would like very much to see it

I was not aware that the Hofburg hosts a fine treasure like this.

It took me a while but a I found Vindobona and Carnuntum in the province Noricum on the map

Originally Posted by Tim

Thanks Voland - I had not heard of that. It was only on display for one day? I would like very much to see it

Here is a website from the university of Augsburg ( Bavaria, another city founded by the Romans by the way) that allows to see the map in all its parts pretty well :

bibliotheca Augustana

Originally Posted by Voland

Here is a website from the university of Augsburg ( Bavaria, another city founded by the Romans by the way) that allows to see the map in all its parts pretty well :

bibliotheca Augustana

This is very nice. Now I will spend time looking through all of those links while my family nag me. I do like this forum.

Ha. I found Cologne(Agripina).

A nice feature of the map are the 90 degree "curves" that were typical for roman roads.

Originally Posted by Voland

Not sure if the "Tabula Peuteringiana" is already included. I just stumbled across a copy in Trier, an ancient roman city on the Moselle in modern Germany, in a museum.

Trier is quite a nice city isn't it?
The Porta Negra, Arena & the Constantine Basilika are quite impressive remains of the might of rome.