Ah! I understand.
You are a map collector too!
That sounds like a beauty. I am especially interested in the maps of Europe, but any old map is interesting to me. It's too bad there isn't some way to post it here!

Hey NewYorker!
Sorry for the delay in replying everywhere but my studies are keeping me really busy and I haven't got the time to spend as much time here as I would want to.

Yeah I think it is a good thread because I guess there is really a need for old maps, they don't exist very often and if, then they are often of doubtable historical quality and moreless to show the borders but without being exact.

Oh those are not only hard to find in the USA, also here. There exists only one single reference on historical maps of Austria. And this is not recommended to to buy since it shows only modern maps of the time, and also, only about all 15 years, so it is not exact and also does not go into the legitimation of power (treaties, heritage, marriage...) as well as its constitutiional status for the House of Austria (Habsburg, like kingdom, duke, archduke, count,...) so it is difficult.
For Vienna this exist, also only one book but it has got a lot of text plus the historical map part, and really hsitorical part. Since it is the only one it costs I think 70 euros
I am personally also really interested in the subject, I am working on a project dealing with the Austrian borders between 1789 and 1815. Lord that is difficult, since borders changed so often at the time, there were no real political maps with exact borders made. For a vast region it was not clear very long (e.g. Hungary) where the influence of the emperor ended and local or other powers were more influencable so it gets difficult.
To make this work I will go to the Austrian National Library where they have the old maps of the war minister and the emperor himself, by reading those treaties and administratial acts of the time I try then to repaint the map of 1789-1815. But since it is a long period I will be satisfied to have an overview lol But you are right, making an exact historical atlas of an old empire (e.g. Austria) is some historical work that still needs to be done. The time where "historical maps" started to get printed was only in the second half of the 19th century, due to the growing nationalism and national consciesness ("We are a nation and this is what we are"). And as for my experience they are often incorrect or inexact, especially when they are supposed to show really old maps. The picture that I posted is most likely of the early 1920's, looks like a schoolbook or a map for a classroom but I am not sure.

Yeah good seen Parts of Italy belonged to Austria for the longest time. Before 1789 even Belgium and Luxembourg belonged to the Austrian empire. The Italian territories were in most cases acquired after the victory in the war of Spanish succession (treaty of Utrecht 1713, treaty of Rastatt 1714), and the final victory over Napoleon and the congress of Vienna (1814/1815). The Italian territories were such as Milan, Florence, Venice, Triest, Siena, Parma and even Naples (early 18th century). The forming of an Italian state and the lost of the Battle in Königsgretz 1866 ended step by step Austrian reignership in Italy.

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LOL...that's probably only because the Germans made their own tanks, but they sucked. They were absolutely useless when it came to crossing trenches, which was of course the main reason tanks were invented in the first place.

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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

The 'original' purpose of a tank was to provide mobile cover across 'no-man's-land' for the infantry. Tanks began life thus as 'infantry support'. Crossing trenches was merely a necessary function.

Your absolutely right. To accomplish that purpose, a tank had to do three things.

1. Be able to run over barbed wire with impunity, creating gaps in it for the infantry to pass through.
2. Be immune to all infantry weapons...for obvious reasons. Artillery, of course, could still destroy a tank.
3. Be able to cross trenches so as to continue to provide support for the infantry past the first trench line.

The trenches were not just one defensive line, as I'm sure you know, but a series of support and command trenches with interconnections, underground bunkers, and intricate multi-layered defense.

German tanks were unable to cross trenches. They were designed, ahead of their time suprisingly, as land battleships to function on open ground. They primarily used wheels instead of treads, and were far too top heavy. Also, unlike British tanks, they useually consisted of only a single, large, main gun. Almost never did they incorporate the machine guns and light cannons necessary to support infantry against other infantry.

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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

The tanks didn't have much of an effect on the war until 1918 when they where used propperly at Amiens, backed with propper infantry support they spearheaded the attack that won the war.

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Death or glory
WOOHOO christmas leave

[QUOTE=Febobo]I became interested in the Habsburg empire as a boy. I liked looking at the shape of the empire during different times in history - it would change as different provinces would become part of the empire, or leave.

I remember when I first read about the siege of Vienna in 1683. I wrote a paper for school when I was 10 years old about the subject. (It wasn't very good - I was only 10! ) The other students thought I was crazy: they said - who cares about Vienna in 1683! HaHa! But I didn't care - I always thought it was so interesting.

Oh, what an interesting project! That would be the time of Napoleaon and just before, yes?

It seems to me that the Austrian emperors were very shrewd and smart about the use of power. They knew how to use diplomacy and marriages to keep the empire going for so many centuries. Vienna was always the capital even when the empire continued to change shape!

Another time that is interesting to me is 1918 - I often would think "It must have been strange to live in Vienna in 1918 when the last emperor abdicated!" Almost 1,000 years with Habsburg emperors, and then suddenly, one day - no more emperor! No more empire!

I would think it must have been a terrible shock for people....


Interesting. I remember hearing from a friend who was of northern Italian descent that there was a strong connection between Austria and that part of Italy.

I am also interested in the Austro-Hungarian dual monarchy. That seems to have been a sensible way to continue the empire and also satisfy a nation (Hungary) with a strong culture and tradition and language of their own.

Time to give Anselme's Empire Thread a bump

I have just posted a thread about my favorite time in history, and this thread provides the PERFECT illustration for the 1870-1914 period!!

So I need to review it from its beginning

Indeed! German unification! The Austro-Hungarian empire! Endlessly interesting (at least for me)...Enjoy!

In my short visit today - I am committed to "bumping" the classic threads! This is (of course) one of them!

this is the best thread ever!

I thought I would give the thread a bump and add another map And this is a special one I would say!

This time it is not really of an empire, but it is an ancient world map. It was drawn in the year 1507 and is the first map that shows "America"

It was made by German cartographe Martin Waldseemüller, the original name is Universalis cosmographia Secundum Ptholomei Traditionem Et Americi Vespucci Aliorum Lustrationes. So it followed the traditional Ptholomeix tradition with the Vespucci idea, which was to think of the new discovered islands as a new continent!

source

This was the biggest image that I could find, it is still a little too small so here there is as an attachement the important detail in the original color:

Attached Images

 

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This is superb. I really like all the details and illustrations surrounding the map - it would be nice to have all of that on new maps.