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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Rotten's Avatar
Speaker of the House
Cut the Crap

 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: Norway
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
I probably should have said i don't trust individuals. I also don't trust groups, but I am willing to give the community a little authority because i trust the community slightly more. My views on limiting the communities power will offset an authoritarians view on much power a person should have. Fundamentally i believe all people are greedy and without a little law and order to keep people in line things would be utter chaos.
I trust individuals much more than groups. Groups are the things you really should fear.

As to anarchist states - the paris commune and the spanish ones during the Spanish Civil War went under because of their "peace loving" neighbours made sure of it. Otherwise, several indian communities, hippies, pirates, etc are considered fairly anarchistic in its nature.

I think it was Aristotle that said "Good men doesn't need a law to know wrong from right, while bad man doesn't give a damn about the law anyway"
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Non Sequitur's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Rapids
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United_States     Netherlands

Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotten View Post
I trust individuals much more than groups. Groups are the things you really should fear.

As to anarchist states - the paris commune and the spanish ones during the Spanish Civil War went under because of their "peace loving" neighbours made sure of it. Otherwise, several indian communities, hippies, pirates, etc are considered fairly anarchistic in its nature.

I think it was Aristotle that said "Good men doesn't need a law to know wrong from right, while bad man doesn't give a damn about the law anyway"
See my main problem is i don't trust everyone in an anarchistic state to act like a "good man" and in fact i expect more people to be bad than good. That means there needs to be a group to keep the good people safe. The group can be controlled, limited, and can be made to look out for the needs of the whole. The individual is greedy and evil (I'm including myself here) and will not look out for his neighbor.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
WarOnIgnorance's Avatar
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Member Since: Nov 2005
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotten View Post
As to anarchist states - the paris commune and the spanish ones during the Spanish Civil War went under because of their "peace loving" neighbours made sure of it.
In the case of the Spanish Civil War (and also the Ukrainian Makhnoist revolt and the Kronstadt era), the cause of the defeat was not neighbouring states, nor the opposition (fascists, monarchies, bankers, clergy according to the case), but the betrayal by the authoritarian communists whom were initially on the same side. In all three cases the anarchist revolt was very succesful until this betrayal.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
WarOnIgnorance's Avatar
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIIX View Post
Please tell us about your favourite one...
It's not my thread. If the OP wants to discuss the benefits of anarcho-capitalism (which generally appears to be the implied meaning around here), there's not much point in bringing up the other ones.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
IIIX's Avatar
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Baka Sensei

 
Member Since: Sep 2004
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United     European_Union

Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
It's not my thread. If the OP wants to discuss the benefits of anarcho-capitalism (which generally appears to be the implied meaning around here), there's not much point in bringing up the other ones.
Make your own thread whenever you feel like it =)
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
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Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
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United_States     Colombia

Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
It's not my thread. If the OP wants to discuss the benefits of anarcho-capitalism (which generally appears to be the implied meaning around here), there's not much point in bringing up the other ones.
Well... the title is the benefits of "Anarchy" not "Anarchism."

So that might just answer your question right there.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2007
Luap's Avatar
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Reluctant patriot?

 
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
In the case of the Spanish Civil War (and also the Ukrainian Makhnoist revolt and the Kronstadt era), the cause of the defeat was not neighbouring states, nor the opposition (fascists, monarchies, bankers, clergy according to the case), but the betrayal by the authoritarian communists whom were initially on the same side. In all three cases the anarchist revolt was very succesful until this betrayal.
Could you give me a Cliff Notes explanation of how anarchism could work on a large scale? It seems that some sort of vertical structure, or bureaucratic organization, is necessary for society to function.

Or perhaps I'm mistaken; I remember reading somewhere that anarchists oppose what they see as illegitimate authorities, but I don't recall reading anywhere that they oppose all authorities. But that might have been Wikipedia where I learned that, and Wikipedia is exactly notorious for its explanations in various philosophies.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2007
CDavidNeely's Avatar
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Greetings and Felicitations,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha View Post
What are the benefits?
Easy to enslave. Unable to defend themselves. Technologically inferior. I would love to see the world fall into anarchy. It would make my job much easier.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2007
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
What kind of 'anarchy' are you referring to ?
Anarcho-fascism, anarcho-capitalism, Parecon, Kropotkin, Voline, Proudhon, Bakunin, Goldman, Chomsky,.... ?
Big difference.
My statement was made with anarcho-capitalism in mind. I beleive the thread was created with anarcho-capitalism in mind given that this thread was instigated by a libertarian according to trailblazer.

Just for the record I subscribe more to minarchy than anarcho capitalism. I think there are shady ambiguities to anarcho-capitalism but I am more than willing to entertain anarcho-capitalism as an alternative to large government. I beleive that anarcho-capitalism could work far better than most suspect.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2007
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

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Originally Posted by cygnus View Post
Greater political, social and economic freedom without nearly as many of the costs and dangers supposed by big government folks.

In addition I beleive there would be far fewer social issues and what issues did come up would solved much more effectively, efficiently and quickly.
I believe there already are plenty of people already inclined to act in such a manner and the fact that we have laws, police and prisons hasn't done too much to change that fact.

Not having a government law or a state sponsored police force does not instantly mean people instantly start to murder and pillage for profit. Just because there is no law prohibiting a behavior does not mean people instantly start doing that which is not prohibited, just like simply because something is prohibited does not mean people will instantly stop doing that which is prohibited. People do what they want and most people do not have the inclination or desire to murder or act violently towards others. In addition it not hard to imagine the creation of private police forces that individuals or communities could hire for security purposes.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2007
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,021

Australia     United

Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnus View Post
I believe there already are plenty of people already inclined to act in such a manner and the fact that we have laws, police and prisons hasn't done too much to change that fact.

Not having a government law or a state sponsored police force does not instantly mean people instantly start to murder and pillage for profit. Just because there is no law prohibiting a behavior does not mean people instantly start doing that which is not prohibited, just like simply because something is prohibited does not mean people will instantly stop doing that which is prohibited. People do what they want and most people do not have the inclination or desire to murder or act violently towards others. In addition it not hard to imagine the creation of private police forces that individuals or communities could hire for security purposes.
Given the situations which have occurred where there have been strikes by police I don't hold out much hope for this. Granted after a week or so of rioting, pillaging, murder, rape, killing and what have you things might settle down. The dismantling of the state would have to happen very, very slowly.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2007
cygnus's Avatar
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diuretic View Post
Given the situations which have occurred where there have been strikes by police I don't hold out much hope for this. Granted after a week or so of rioting, pillaging, murder, rape, killing and what have you things might settle down. The dismantling of the state would have to happen very, very slowly.
Granted.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2007
County Executive
Bomb-throwing anarchist

 
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: City of Trees
Posts: 367

United_States     Idaho

Re: The benefits of anarchy

I have to agree with Mr. Neely, here. The one benefit to anarchy is to remind people that there are ruthless bastards (like myself) out there who will quickly and happily step into the void that anarchy yields. Such is how an empire is forged.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2007
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,021

Australia     United

Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatech View Post
I have to agree with Mr. Neely, here. The one benefit to anarchy is to remind people that there are ruthless bastards (like myself) out there who will quickly and happily step into the void that anarchy yields. Such is how an empire is forged.
But even in an anarchist community wouldn't the non-ruthless bastards organise collectively to deal with the individual ruthless bastards? When we say "anarchist" we aren't talking wussy, spineless people, we're talking people who don't need or want government and can do for themselves. I don't think your ruthless bastards would stand a chance frankly.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2007
WarOnIgnorance's Avatar
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Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Sol III
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Re: The benefits of anarchy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diuretic View Post
But even in an anarchist community wouldn't the non-ruthless bastards organise collectively to deal with the individual ruthless bastards? When we say "anarchist" we aren't talking wussy, spineless people, we're talking people who don't need or want government and can do for themselves. I don't think your ruthless bastards would stand a chance frankly.
Exactly.
No matter the variation of anarchism, it is constituted of people who can manage for themselves without -hierarchical or authoritarian- leadership. The feasibility adn succes of this has been proven in the Spanish Civil War where an anarchist army, assembled through free association, overcame the organized forces of the fascist government which had the full support of the banking world, the monarchy, and the clergy.
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