Blacks want Georgia to apologize - Page 6 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

MareTranquility · #76 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux

Said someone who consistently argues in favor of gay marriage laws...

You should read more closely: You can't force people to want to do what's right.

Perhaps you can force people to do what's right, but you cannot force them to WANT to do what's right.

trobinett · #77 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

When someone dies you often say "I'm sorry," to them, it shows compassion and a recognition of their pain--not an admission of guilt. How else do people express empathy?

By posting on political forums...........

emptypepsi · #78 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

When someone dies you often say "I'm sorry," to them, it shows compassion and a recognition of their pain--not an admission of guilt. How else do people express empathy?

But read the OP. They aren't asking for a recognition of pain. They are clearly asking for an apology of the states past active role in slavery. Not the same thing as a recognition of pain. Why should anyone have to apologize for the actions of ignorant folk in the past?

emptypepsi · #79 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

You should read more closely: You can't force people to want to do what's right.

Perhaps you can force people to do what's right, but you cannot force them to WANT to do what's right.

Exactly, which is why this apology nonsense is fruitless for the 'road to racial disharmony'. As long as humans can think freely (and I pray that this is the goal we are maintaining in America

), then bigotry and racism will exist to a degree. The best one can do is educate to others on their own time and of their own energy. Forcing others to see a viewpoint or apologize for actions of others in the past via taxable legislation is not going to exactly dimish repressed anger, if you know what I mean.

By the way, Mare, I haven't seen you around here for a while! How the heck are ya?

emptypepsi · #80 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

By the way, when the state offers this 'apology' and in a couple hundred years when all of the people living in this state are gone, will another be required for all of the new citizens not alive during this apology? I mean, shouldn't they apologize for the population of african-americans as well? How often exactly would the apology have to be repeated? Will it have to be more long-winded and verbose as time passes?

Dilettante · #81 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samantha

Announcing that you did something wrong, and apologizing for it, go hand in hand.

I absolutely agree!

I'd go so far as to say that it works both ways: apologizing goes hand and hand with announcing that you did something wrong. Which is precisely why the legislature of GA, which represents the current population of that state, should not be apologizing: the people they represent haven't done anything wrong!

emptypepsi · #82 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilettante

I absolutely agree!

I'd go so far as to say that it works both ways: apologizing goes hand and hand with announcing that you did something wrong. Which is precisely why the legislature of GA, which represents the current population of that state, should not be apologizing: the people they represent haven't done anything wrong!

And I guess this apology that is being proposed would have to be re-implemented every 75-100 years or so. I mean, we gotta catch up with all the folks who weren't alive during the first apology.
Gee, why not make it an everyday thing? How the hell are those newborns exempt?

chassisman · #83 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

The fact that so many died freeing the slaves simply adds to the awfulness of that whole chapter in American history. The Official entities who sanctioned the slavery and required the slaughter of so many people to bring it to an end should publicly acknowledge their error and aplolgize to ALL the people who were harmed. You say that all the responsible people are dead? Exactly! Those people would NEVER have apologized, it's up to us with our greater perspective to realize the gravity of their error and PUBLICLY acknowledge it.

There is an excellent movie called IN MY COUNTRY about the truth and reconcilliation hearings held in South Africa after apartheid ended. The people who had done the most terrible things were forgiven by the victims or the victims families if they would publicly face the people they had wronged and admit all the things that they had done. It's a very painful movie but it shows the incredible power of forgiveness--which can only come with a public apology and the acknowledgement of wrong having been done. The black people forgave their persecutors in a show of Christian compassion the like of which I have never seen before.

People have posted on this thread that Black people don't want to forgive. How do we know that if we don't apologize? An honest apology costs nothing but a little ego and it can be that all-important first step towards reconciliation. Even if your apology isn't accepted, you have done the right thing by recognizing the wrong and giving the apology. It's not about THEM, it's about US.

Sure, let's have all Georgians who are ex slave owners apologize. That ought to narrow it down to about zero. Once again, todays Georgians have nothing to aplogize for. Nothing.

chassisman · #84 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samantha

Announcing that you did something wrong, and apologizing for it, go hand in hand.

So are you parents going to be posting their apology for blessing us with you any time soon?

Its only right, you know.

MareTranquility · #85 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by chassisman

Sure, let's have all Georgians who are ex slave owners apologize. That ought to narrow it down to about zero. Once again, todays Georgians have nothing to aplogize for. Nothing.

I'm amazed at the number of people who are unhappy with the idea of a simple apology for an incredible act of cruelty. It's like this is a deduction from your bank account. I guess that apologies are more costly than I thought.

One of the most destructive things to the social contract in a country is a lack of empathy for the suffering of one's fellows. That's why so many American veterans are living under bridges, why a third of our population has no health coverage, and that's why we can spend a billion dollars a week to kill people in a third world country but we can't fund our veteran's hospitals adequately, nor house our own people or fund our schools. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."

Dilettante · #86 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

I think one point that might be made here is that most people do not view the the states as being somehow "seperate entities" from the people. Thus, if the state does something it is ALWAYS seen as doing it on behalf of the people. That's how the system works: the state is not seperate from the people. Thus, the "State of Georgia" can't apologizing for something without the (current) people of Georgia apologizing for it.

The current people of Georgia might as well apologize for Ghengis Khan's murders; they were equally not responsible for those. The apology that is required here needs to come from people who are are long since dead: it cannot happen, not in any meaningful way.

emptypepsi · #87 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Well, I didn't perform the act of cruelty. Why am I apologizing? Pardon me, I need that explained to me first. Why am I apologizing for the acts of ignorant people long ago?

Definition of apology: apology - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Read number one. Where have I "insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another" in this regard? Do these apologies apply to everyone born from here-on-in or do we repeat this every time a new generation of people comes into the state? If the first, how can we really be sure they are sorry unless we do it over again?

See where this is going? This line of action is pointless and doesn't get anybody anywhere except anchored in the past and the other side repressing anger over having to 'apologize' for what their great-great-grandparents may or may not have done.

emptypepsi · #88 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilettante

I think one point that might be made here is that most people do not view the the states as being somehow "seperate entities" from the people. Thus, if the state does something it is ALWAYS seen as doing it on behalf of the people. That's how the system works: the state is not seperate from the people. Thus, the "State of Georgia" can't apologizing for something without the (current) people of Georgia apologizing for it.

The current people of Georgia might as well apologize for Ghengis Khan's murders; they were equally not responsible for those. The apology that is required here needs to come from people who are are long since dead: it cannot happen, not in any meaningful way.

Well said.

The state is supposed to be representative of the people: A government for the people, of the people, by the people...

Dilettante · #89 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

I'm amazed at the number of people who are unhappy with the idea of a simple apology for an incredible act of cruelty. It's like this is a deduction from your bank account. I guess that apologies are more costly than I thought.

I think you're right: apologizing costs you something. That's the only reason why it means anything.
Apologizing means not just saying "That was bad; I wish it didn't happen." If that was all it was then we'd be apologizing for hurricanes and tornados.
Apologizing means "What I did was bad; I'm sorry I did that."

It's an admission of guilt and regret. An admission of responsibility. That's why it means something, it lets both the offended and the offender accept the part they played in the offense.

But because of that, it isn't right to ask for an apology from someone who was not involved in the offense. That's why people are unhappy with it: asking for a meaningless apology cheapens all apologies, even the ones that actually mean something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

One of the most destructive things to the social contract in a country is a lack of empathy for the suffering of one's fellows.

Who precisely are you asking empathy for?

chassisman · #90 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MareTranquility

I'm amazed at the number of people who are unhappy with the idea of a simple apology for an incredible act of cruelty. It's like this is a deduction from your bank account. I guess that apologies are more costly than I thought.

One of the most destructive things to the social contract in a country is a lack of empathy for the suffering of one's fellows. That's why so many American veterans are living under bridges, why a third of our population has no health coverage, and that's why we can spend a billion dollars a week to kill people in a third world country but we can't fund our veteran's hospitals adequately, nor house our own people or fund our schools. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."

OK, now ask youself this.........if the requested apology was rendered, could we expect a measurable white/black relations improvement as a result of the suggested idiocy?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode