Wow - so anyone who incarnates as a Jew is responsible for a genicide that happened thousands of years before their birth!? Pretty odd view of karma - usually it's a more personal journey through lifetimes.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

It goes beyond the human quirk, I believe. Hatred - any hatred of a group, not just anti-semitism - is immensely useful. Hatred of Jews was crucial to Hitler's success - hatred of gays has been useful for the same politicians who made fun of right wing Xtians for carrying that banner. Hatred of a common enemy can rally a people - raising the jingoism level automatically lowers the popular ability to percieve that the same folks stoking the fires are busy robbing all sides blind.

Jews are a convenient target because there is a rich history of already established stereotypes to mine - bu the Irish or the Mexicans will do in a pinch.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Much like Roma, they don't assimilate.

Yeah, I know. But that is karma for you. At least, in ancestral terms.
Since i'm not Jewish, i'm not sure: have Jews condemned the genocide? Or is it something of a neccessary evil?

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Wow. Twenty-first century and some people in this thread are still making excuses for persecuting Jews.

The most common tripe posted in this thread is that the "Jews are different" - as if this somehow justifies attacking them.

Few here take note of all the efforts Christians (and Europeans generally) have invested in creating these distinctions. Ancient & medieval laws of western nations routinely forbade Jews from living in particular places, or forced them to live only in particular places or precluded them from particular trades and indeed, in some cases, forced them to wear some form of visual identification that show that they were jews (and thus 'different' since it wasn't always obvious who really was a Jew). So Christians helped to manufacture this appearance of 'difference' and then use this 'difference' to justify persecution and blame it on the jews?

The same point is made when one says "Jews don't assimilate".

To assimilate is to become one with the majority. The majority in Europe, historically speaking, were Christians and Christian culture was totally dominant. Jews can't become Christians, ergo, Jews couldn't assimilate. This is an argument designed entirely (and ONLY) for the purpose of justifying the persecution of Jews.

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing worse than Jew-bashing is to politely endorse it while pretending not to. That compounds the violence with hypocrisy.

The comment about the Jews deserving it for commiting some 'genocide' is by far the most outrageous and obscene. The fact that one needs to use scripture to supply the only 'evidence' for this crime is beside the point - the extreme bias in selecting one single (and alleged) ancient event to justify anything in the present day is sufficiently absurd.

A brief history of hating Jews in Europe... at your request.

As timj219 correctly pointed out on page one above, the origin of 'Jewhating' is planted firmly in the first 300 years after the 'death of Christ' when Christians within the Roman Empire found it politically & religiously expedient to blame/attack the Jews for being responsible for 'murdering Christ'. The Roman Imperial authorities certainly did not discourage this as it allowed all of Rome to (symbolically) join in with Pontius Pilote in washing their hands of any blame in that whole affair.

With the medieval era and the period of 'European Christendom', the Jews were treated generally poorly throughout the entirety of Europe. The Christian prohibition against 'usury' or the 'taking of interest on a loan' made substantial commerce almost impossible (theoretically only - in practice, it was a very rare Christian of the history books who was troubled by the act of charging or paying of interest). For this reason, the Jews were very useful to Kings, feudal Lords and merchant traders. Up until the 12th century, the Jews of Europe thus had a veritable monopoly upon all banking and finance. It is to be noted that this illegal and unofficial monopoly was forced upon the Jews by Christian laws, Christian custom and Christian Kings.

In England, France and Spain, Jews were always specifically under the direct protection of the King. In France (1182) England (1290) and Spain (1492), the Kings found it expedient to actually expel all Jews out of their country (in all three cases, the Jews held larger than normal amounts of Royal debt at the time - to spendthrift Kings in deep financial trouble). Because the Jews were the bankers for everyone in the nation, expelling the Jews wiped out all debts for everyone, not just the King. This was thus a very popular policy with the majority of the people for both religious and financial reasons. In all three cases, the Jews were later permitted to return.

Because of this strong threat of 'expulsion', the Kings of (western) Europe found it quite expedient and very profitable to tax Jews very heavily, since there was always lots of ready violence available to threaten them with. A close study of the income of Norman-Angevin English Kings shows that the King was able to levy and collect not only special and specific taxes against Jews, but also many 'forced donations' as well - always under constant threat of expulsion. Jews never were more than one or two per cent of England's population, and yet, they often accounted for five per cent of Royal revenues or Kingdom-wide 'forced donations' to the King.*

For these reasons, from a historical perspective, hatred of the Jews has been fostered by both Chritians and the Christian Church, as well as civil authorities and most particularly Kings & Emperors, throughout all of Europe and throughout all of the medieval era (800 to 1500).

Subsequent to the medieval era, persecution and hatred of Jews generally reduced across Europe (as much as this can be discerned from official sources). Enlightenment Europe was a generally more 'tolerant' place, not just for Jews, but also for Catholics/Protestants following the Reformation. That being said, it seems 'Jewhating' started to turn around in the late 19th and early 20th century, rising up in the cities of industrial Europe. Again, as before, the various civil, religious and government interests rarely raised a finger in protest against this rise in 'Jewhating' until it became a hysteria (and a cancer) in Nazi Germany.

Because of their veritable monopoly on banking and finance (and the related field of law) for so many centuries, Jews tend to be 'over-represented' in these fields to this day. This is nothing more than a cultural tradition 'forced' upon them by Europeans.

*Note: The reason that one tends to cite examples of English history here it is because more medieval records and documents survived in England than anywhere else, enabling one to have access to this kind of historical information. Remarkable amounts of the most arcane historical data on England going back to the 11th century AD and beyond (including County Coroner's reports, Sheriff's reports, land-charters, birth/death records, Royal finances, etc) is available to historians. Thus, England often provides the most well researched examples of many medieval historical phenomena. If anything, the Jews were treated relatively 'less badly' (or no worse) in England than in many other parts of Europe at the time.

Edited to add: I just wanted to point out that 'Jew-hating' seems to 'begin' at or around the year 1 AD. Secondly, it is to be noted that the Muslims and the Islamic Caliphate generally was quite friendly with the Jews (and vice versa) throughout most of history. The Jews were allied with the Muslims during the Crusades after witnessing the slaughter the Christian Crusaders inflicted on the population of Jerusalem upon their conquest. Islamic (particularly Arabic & Persian) 'Jew-hating' pretty much begins with WW2 - the Nazi's seeking allies/support/oil in the Middle East, and the post-war establishment of the State of Israel.

Yes, I'm afraid this is true. And it has a VERY long history.

It is a widely held theory in paleoanthropology that Homo Sapiens may have helped our 'cousins' the Neanderthals into extinction. It is obviously a hard habit to break from.

Which is why we must not give excuses for this behavior. \\

YouTube - Palestinian TV: Inciting Children To "Commit a Massacre"
YouTube - Palestinian Hate Education: Girl's Poem about Machine Guns
YouTube - Desert Liberators - funny as hell big breasted virgins lol ol ol


long but worth it.. YouTube - Arab kids are taught to murder JEWS!!!!

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www.myspace.com/crusade7

basically - that look s about right - but you forgot to mention that the Jews practised usury - the lending of money for profit (ie charging interest) that was a sin according to the christian faith.

I knew it was a sin according islam, but christianity as well? thats interesting.

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www.myspace.com/crusade7

The legacy of the Roman/Jewish conflict was significant because of the role that played in shaping the bible.

Martin Luther, among others, used this as a basis for promoting hatred of Jews.

pretty much - who we identify as the hated outsider will depend on what suits at the time ... here in the late seventies it was the Indo chinese, a few years ago it was the Muslims ...

If you look at kids, they quickly identify in groups and out groups, among adults, the extent to which the out groups become vulnerable to discrimination, abuse or worse depends on economics, social stability and the way rumours are spread. When the later is done on a large scale with the help of governments and media its referred to as propaganda - and it usually feeds insecurities.

I take some offense to that seeing as I'm Jewish.

I strongly disagree.

First of all, there are two basic kinds of 'hate'.

One of them is the most common one, it is the flipside of 'love' - it is the kind of hate one can only have with one you loved (or could have loved) - an ex-lover, ex-wife, ex-husband, or some other close personal relationship. This kind of hate is always personal and usually private. I don't think we can ever explain, understand, prevent or mitigate this kind of hate because it is irrational, highly emotional and deeply subjectively personal.

The other kind of 'hate' is what is applied in a non-personal way. It is not based on any personal relationship at all, rather it is applied to people that one may have never met or seen and may live on the other side of the planet. It is hatred by 'classification'. This kind of hatred can generally be explained, it can be generally understood and it can be generally mitigated against because it is not entirely irrational and it is generally understood to be a product of socio-cultural influences that vary from place to place and from time to time. Most often, it is manufactured by and for the benefit of the ruling elites.

Ergo, not all hatred is arbitrary. Lots of it is manufactured and thus can (theoretically) be understood and addressed.

I'd rather you offered a better reason for being offended.

Nevertheless, I will grant my apology to you for I must assure you that offense to Jews is the absolute least of my intentions here. I seek only to understand and explain the historical phenomena of 'Jew-hating' in Europe in the most clearest language that I can.