Originally Posted by MareTranquility

If the theological message is the same, why are there more than 2500 sects of Christianity in the world today? Why is there sectarian violence? Why are some sects embacing diversity while others are condemning it?

Originally Posted by Mark_Twain

And I disagree with Non all the time.

And Non, I attend a Unitarian gathering quite often. The very name "Unitarian" speaks to the fact that not all people who study the Gospels believe in the Trinity.

Really, you should get out more often. . .

Originally Posted by Rotten

How can you sacrifice yourself for someone when you're immortal? Jesus didn't die for us, since he's all up and kicking in the sky. And why did he do this to forgive us?

Couldn't he just forgive us without him going through all the miseries of life? To me that's pretty masochistic (wanting to go through pain). I wouldn't mind someone going through lots of stuff to save me, but I'd rather them save me without all the sticky-wicked stuff. Did God do all this for self-aggrandizement?

Originally Posted by Non Sequitur

To the first part: this is the beauty of the trinity. God the son (Jesus) did die. as the creed says "he was crucified died and was burried. On the third day he rose again." because Jesus is fully human (along with being fully divine) he can die and did. Now yes he is alive and up in heaven because he was raised from the dead, but for three days he was very much dead.

To the second part: there are many reasons why Christ went through all suffering

first, to overcome the spiritual death of mankind. Spiritual death is what separates mankind from God, the source of All Creation. All mankind is naturally born apart from God, which is the consequence of original rebellion by Adam and Eve (back to the original topic) against God, by doubting His Word.

Second, by taking sin upon Himself, Christ was able to justify, vindicate, pardon and clear the penalties of sin. Because of Christ, God accepts the sinner who was born apart from Him as now having been made righteous through Jesus. Only God's Gift of His Son to the world can justify mankind. There is nothing mankind can do to justify himself before God.

Third, Christs death is the fulfilment of prophecy and declares that Jesus is The Messiah, proof of His Deity; completes victory over sin and its penalty of physical and spiritual death; enables His Righteousness to be shared as well as His Eternal Life and is the assurance for believers that their bodies will also be resurrected at His Second Coming as promised; to sit at God's Right Hand and to send The Holy Spirit

Ok there are lots more theological reasons that i don't hold, like sacrifice theology (basically says "someone has to pay so it's going to be Christ"). So thats a good start for why.

Originally Posted by Josepha

Any prophecy is a severe misinterpretation of a book 4,000+ years older than Christ - taken by force and created from blood and smoke.

Originally Posted by Non Sequitur

ok well I don't particularly feel like going through every Christ reference in the Old testament because there are too many but a main one is the suffering servant passage in Isaiah (52:13-53:12). Micah chapter 5 is another good one. Now i will say that the interpretation of these verses only makes sense from the Christ perspective.

For that argument to work the authority of Bible has to be held in some respect and if you don't hold that then yes it all sounds crazy. the point remains with the other two reasons i gave and the array of others that i think are not theologically sound.

Originally Posted by Josepha

"Old" Testament writing are best interpreted by those who wrote them - within the paradigm for which they were written. Those who conquer by force, and prophecize in retrospect, aren't worthy of belief.