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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2007
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metalted metalted is offline
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I support American Imperialism.

On imperialism. I need more of what you think to be imperialism, because to me imperialism can be many things. I think what America does is corporate imperialism. America is not really about subjugating people and beating them into a pulp making literal colonies out of everyone, such is the ways of old europe.

America is more about having free societies around the world, this of course is out of pure self interest and economic benifit, not out of a true desire to help everyone, nor should it be. The helping people is secondary to american interests, when america is at its best is when self interest and assisting people coincide. A theoritical example might be removing saddam from power for his decades of beligerance, allowing free enterprise to take hold which would (hopefully) mutually benifit america and iraq, and 'liberate' iraqi people from a brutal dictator.

yes america is an empire. but its not really an evil one. our contribution to the world is a positive one, when one wieghs the pros and cons out. including our economic, charity, scientific, humanitarian.. all things america tends to do fairly well when compared to other regimes... and most positivly when compared to empires to the world...

what makes us an empire... our diplomatic and economic power.. our military bases around the world.. our presence in almost every corner of the globe. but we use diplomatic and economic power over military power to get us in our position. (ie leasing land for military bases)

America should never act in pure humanitarian ways, unless it gets us somekind of advantage ie improved image in the world, or some kind of security or economic benifit.
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Old 04-21-2007
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iamwhatiseem iamwhatiseem is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

America is no longer a corporate imperialist metal.

Do you realize how many MAJOR corporations in the United States that are foriegn owned?..that some of the largest commercial land owners are foriegn?
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Old 04-22-2007
htperr6565 htperr6565 is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

metalted, you are describing what i call 'compassionate imperialism' glad to see someone else sees the light!
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Old 04-23-2007
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalted View Post
America is not really about subjugating people and beating them into a pulp making literal colonies out of everyone, such is the ways of old europe.
Kinda ironic, 'cause that's how america came into existing. You're the result of subjagation and beating of people, and you're not happy with it? (Which is, the USA?)
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Old 04-23-2007
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Imperialism essentially says "I want whats best for me therefore you WILL wants best for me."

And then there was terrorism.
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Old 04-23-2007
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

First of all America is most certainly not an imperialist governance.
France and British empires of old is classic imperialism...where you move in, setup shop and simply take over...give me the long list of countries where America has taken over in the last 50 years....yeah.

America has tremendous influence as one should expect, and she uses that influence to promote self interest.
ALL countries do this, America does it on a grander scale....that is not imperialism.
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Old 04-23-2007
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalted View Post
On imperialism. I need more of what you think to be imperialism, because to me imperialism can be many things. I think what America does is corporate imperialism. America is not really about subjugating people and beating them into a pulp making literal colonies out of everyone, such is the ways of old europe.

America is more about having free societies around the world, this of course is out of pure self interest and economic benifit, not out of a true desire to help everyone, nor should it be. The helping people is secondary to american interests, when america is at its best is when self interest and assisting people coincide. A theoritical example might be removing saddam from power for his decades of beligerance, allowing free enterprise to take hold which would (hopefully) mutually benifit america and iraq, and 'liberate' iraqi people from a brutal dictator.

yes america is an empire. but its not really an evil one. our contribution to the world is a positive one, when one wieghs the pros and cons out. including our economic, charity, scientific, humanitarian.. all things america tends to do fairly well when compared to other regimes... and most positivly when compared to empires to the world...

what makes us an empire... our diplomatic and economic power.. our military bases around the world.. our presence in almost every corner of the globe. but we use diplomatic and economic power over military power to get us in our position. (ie leasing land for military bases)


Imperialism had very problematic consequences during the cold war - times during which "America was really about subjugating people and beating them into a pulp making literal colonies out of everyone, such as did old europe " in south america.

Another problem is that this imperialism is not necessarily in favour of others. A good example is agriculture - the american and european agricultural policies are killing Africa, cancelling and reversing the effects of all humanitarian aid.

Finally, this imperialism has a tendency to make errors because of the subjective american perspective on the world (any kind of imperialism faces this issue, as everyone has his subjective views). See the example that you provided yourself, Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalted
America should never act in pure humanitarian ways, unless it gets us somekind of advantage ie improved image in the world, or some kind of security or economic benifit.
Wait - America should not, ever, act morally? Do you realize that what you just wrote is a paraphrase of the sentence from the book 1984: "Bad is Good"?
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Last edited by IIIX; 04-23-2007 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 04-23-2007
htperr6565 htperr6565 is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

show us an example of where morality has a function in international politics.
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Last edited by htperr6565; 04-23-2007 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 04-23-2007
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIIX View Post
Imperialism had very problematic consequences during the cold war - times during which "America was really about subjugating people and beating them into a pulp making literal colonies out of everyone, such as did old europe " in south america.

Another problem is that this imperialism is not necessarily in favour of others. A good example is agriculture - the american and european agricultural policies are killing Africa, cancelling and reversing the effects of all humanitarian aid.

Finally, this imperialism has a tendency to make errors because of the subjective american perspective on the world (any kind of imperialism faces this issue, as everyone has his subjective views). See the example that you provided yourself, Iraq.


Wait - America should not, ever, act morally? Do you realize that what you just wrote is a paraphrase of the sentence from the book 1984: "Bad is Good"?
What America did during the Cold War, IMO is the worst actions ever installed by a U.S. President(s).
It was Stephen Ambrose who said "All great leaders are great at doing good things and doing bad things"..Reagon was no exception..he indeed accomplished the end of the Cold War...but at a GREAT price to South/Central America.

However, this is still not Imperialism.
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Old 04-23-2007
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metalted metalted is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIIX View Post
Wait - America should not, ever, act morally? Do you realize that what you just wrote is a paraphrase of the sentence from the book 1984: "Bad is Good"?

out of pure humanitarian.. meaning all motivations should be both benificial to our country and to whoever we are dealing with.. nothing should be handed out for free unless there is some kind of plus coming to our end of the table.

never read the book pure coincidence.

south america is something have not had to much interest in to study, so i dont consider our past in respect to south america because i dont know much about it.. im primarily interested in our dealings with the mideast china russia.. and any states in between.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2007
Nemo Nemo is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.



We have become a nation of so-called “do-gooders.” We are on a mission, like Mrs. Jellyby for the natives of Borrioboola-Gha in Charles Dickens’ Bleak House, to make the world a better place - at least to our own liking. We have become the organizers, the proselytizers, the subsidizers of the new Utopia. We pledge to toil ceaselessly and tirelessly for the cause - civic, social, charitable - all for the greater good; or at least what we perceive to be the greater good. We are the spreaders of democracy, Christianity and aid to the poor, the oppressed, the unbaptized.

But are we really doing any good? Can democracy be imposed on a people, however oppressed? Is Christ’s message the only answer? Does aid really help the impoverished sustain themselves, or only grind them into dependency? Are we not doing more harm than good? Must we kill them in order to save them?

God save the world - before we do.
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Old 04-24-2007
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drgoodtrips drgoodtrips is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htperr6565 View Post
metalted, you are describing what i call 'compassionate imperialism' glad to see someone else sees the light!
What you both are describing is American hegemony and it is generally a grandiose waste of the taxpayer money as it provides little to no benefit to most citizens.
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Old 04-24-2007
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metalted metalted is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

i had a dream i saw the earth and a blinding fireball absorbed the new world... and the citzens of the west let out a hushed cheer then.. panic.
they must be thier own protectors.. they will be the greeks vrs the mighty persian empire. ununified bickering still.. while the new world overlords fight to take the riegns.. and little islands of freedom in the asian pacific will be the first to go.. thier decadance and unability to adapt to changing world will make them easy victims.. perhaps europe will survive the siege but no longer will it be the powerhouse as the dark forces will forever be unchecked by the once great superpower.. warrior of democracy.

armegeddon.
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Old 04-24-2007
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Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalted View Post
out of pure humanitarian.. meaning all motivations should be both benificial to our country and to whoever we are dealing with.. nothing should be handed out for free unless there is some kind of plus coming to our end of the table.

never read the book pure coincidence.

south america is something have not had to much interest in to study, so i dont consider our past in respect to south america because i dont know much about it.. im primarily interested in our dealings with the mideast china russia.. and any states in between.
If you don't know anything about American neo-colonialism in our own back yard, then you shouldn't be talking about it.
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Old 04-24-2007
MareTranquility MareTranquility is offline
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Re: I support American Imperialism.

Whether you call it hegemony or imperialism doesn't really matter. Every country that has gone down this road has bankrupted itself morally and financially. We will be no different.
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