Hell, I've always believed that!

The original sin is that of Adam, of his choice to go against the law of God. As all of us descend from Adam (from creationist theory), we all suffer the consequences of Adam's sin - just as one inherits brown eyes from their parents, so do they inherit the sin of Adam (per St. Augustine, if I remember catechism...it's been a long time). The consequence of this original sin is death. So, even with baptism, one suffers the consequence of this original sin.

Infants who die before baptism go to Limbo (not Purgatory since there is no volution in infants, thus no need for final purification) where they live in natural hapiness rather than eternal happiness. The only difference is that eternal happiness is one step above natural happiness in that it includes communion with God (Heaven).

Thus, fundamentally I see no difference between the protestant view that baptism brings one into communion with God and that of the Roman Catholic view.

Having been indoctrinated as a Roman Catholic, I believe in having infants baptised - hedge your bets and get all the grace points you can . However, even though I was indoctrinated as a Roman Catholic, I've always had a hard time getting my head around the original sin/death/baptism. For instance, we get baptised to be forgiven of the original sin yet we still suffer the consequence of that sin? And...there really is no difference between the RC views of baptism and that of those horrible protestants (that comes from being indoctrinated as an Irish Catholic... )

The doctrine that unbaptised babies only make it to Limbo has been a controversy for centuries. Even in our thick set of scriptures, it is never formally discussed. So, I'm OK with the Vatican re-examining this and I'm glad that the theological scholars associated with the Church continue to examine and re-examine doctrine. Also, the Vatican is probably one of the best organizations at marketing in all of time. Since the ramifications of the original sin have been iffy for centuries AND since the Vatican sees RC numbers decreasing (esp. in Europe), this was an easy doctrine to ease up on to draw and/or keep more numbers in the Church.

...and...I'm 100% with you. Only God determines who is in grace with Him.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Baptists, as well as most other Protestants don't believe that people must be baptized in order to go to Heaven, nor do we believe in purgatory. We believe baptism to be an act of obedience after salvation and that salvation alone is the only way into Heaven. That's much different that the Catholic beliefs.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

I second.

I apoligise for my ignorance. I was responding to Non Sequitor's claim that he believes that baptism brings one into communion with God. He's a Lutheran. It's the classic myopic view of RC's to lump all protestants together... . Yes, the Baptist view is different from the RC view...it's a good way to look at baptism, also. However, I'm still with Non Sequitor in that I believe that only God can choose who is in grace with Him (or...who has salvation) because our (all of us) God is all-loving and all-knowing.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Right and as long as we agree on this no issue whatsoever.

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

Heh... one of my little brother's CCD teacher told him that babies who aren't baptized when they die go to limbo. This perturbed the lad, and he asked my mother, who went to the priest about it, and he said that limbo was bunk.

I think this is just the Church catching up on doctrine with what everybody already believes anyway.

Incidentally, my father does not have a middle name because when he was a baby they thought he was going to die, so they just baptized him quickly on St. Ignatius day (San Ignacio), so that he'd be in the clear.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas