The nazi pope has decided that unbaptized children can get to heaven - which means they were born in a state of grace - and did not need baptism. Therefore, there is no original sin - and there never was one - and that overturns the whole reason for having a messiah.

Is he really the antichrist?

__________________
And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Do you have a reference or link to this? If it's true, it's certainly very interesting how a man can now decide what it takes to get into heaven. It would certainly throw open most of the other assertions upon which the Catholic Church is built upon.

Here's the linc - I think this means that the pope is no longer catholic. Now, with global warning, bears may stop shitting in the woods, too. The mayan calendar runs out in 2012......this is getting kinda freaky.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...0,1560412.story

Pope Revises 'Limbo' for Babies

By NICOLE WINFIELD
Associated Press Writer
Published April 20, 2007, 11:41 AM CDT

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict XVI has revised traditional Roman Catholic teaching on so-called "limbo," approving a church report released Friday that said there was reason to hope that babies who die without baptism can go to heaven.

Benedict approved the findings of the International Theological Commission, which issued its long-awaited document on limbo on Origins, the documentary service of Catholic News Service, the news agency of the American Bishop's Conference.

"We can say we have many reasons to hope that there is salvation for these babies," the Rev. Luis Ladaria, a Jesuit who is the commission's secretary-general, told The Associated Press.

Although Catholics have long believed that children who die without being baptized are with original sin and thus excluded from heaven, the church has no formal doctrine on the matter. Theologians have long taught, however, that such children enjoy an eternal state of perfect natural happiness, a state commonly called limbo, but without being in communion with God.

Pope John Paul II and Benedict had urged further study on limbo, in part because of "the pressing pastoral needs" sparked by the increase in abortion and the growing number of children who die without being baptized, the report said.

In the document, the commission said there were "serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptized infants who die will be saved and brought into eternal happiness."

It stressed, however, that "these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge."

Ladaria said no one could know for certain what becomes of unbaptized babies since Scripture is largely silent on the matter.

Catholic parents should still baptize their children, as that sacrament is the way salvation is revealed, the document said.

The International Theological Commission is a body of Vatican-appointed theologians who advise the pope and the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Benedict headed the Congregation for two decades before becoming pope in 2005.

__________________
And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Hmmm, it's certainly interesting how one man can change doctrine. If the next Pope decides that children who haven't been baptised can't go to heaven does that mean that any children that die between now and then are kicked out of heaven at that stage?

If people need any more reason to believe in the fallacy of religious doctrine then surely this is it. The Catholic Church has clearly defined that it is not a religion based on the teachings of God, but on how man wants to deliver a belief. If Ratzinger decides tomorrow that only men over the age of 45 can get into heaven, is there any mechanism by which his decisions can be overturned? I know I'm being a little far-fetched now, but if he is able to make doctrinal changes based on his opinion, where does it end? Why then doesn't he stop his decries against homosexuality? Clearly because he has a personal opinion about it. That's the problem here: he is no longer interpreting scripture in the manner it was intended; he is interpreting scripture in accordance with his own opinion.

No, of course not! That's ridiculous, they'd be grandfathered through. You can't make Heavenly restrictions retroactive.

He is Christ's Vicar on Earth, how dare you badmouth him? God probably sent him a memo--too bad God didn't want to send the message via a burning Bush, I know where He could have gotten one real cheap.

__________________
The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

But if the Catholic Church is just a crock, that undermines the foundation of all Christianity and Islam at the same time.
Now I'll never know how many angels an fit on the head of a pin..............

Next thing you know they'll be saying things like the Exodus from Egypt never took place, Oh, they already are, but just the scientists who actually look at proof.................

Zeus be praised, the usurpers to Olympus have been vanquished

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

haha wow if ever there was a reason to believe in sola scriptura (scripture alone) for the authority on doctrine then this would be it.

ok i don't know the exact Catholic theology on Original Sin, but as a Lutheran i have never understood original sin to just disappear when someone is baptized. Original sin is still present, just through the Holy Spirit a person is put in communion with God and thus the hold is broken. The gift of Holy Spirit is received through the water of baptism just like Christ received the spirit when he was baptized.

Now that being said the key phrase is "through the Holy Spirit." While being baptized is the best way to receive the Holy spirit I am not willing to rule out the possibility that the unbaptized can receive the Holy Spirit too. As I say so often this is something God knows and we can't. So i don't think he is actually canceling the doctrine.

Also the key phrases in that article are: "the church has no formal doctrine on the matter" and "no one could know for certain what becomes of unbaptized babies since Scripture is largely silent on the matter." Really the Catholic church is trying to deal with a gap in their theology. Trying to cover a recent issue that has not been a problem before.

Actually we just had a baptism today in church so i will just copy down part of the liturgy: "In Holy Baptism our gracious heavenly Father liberates us from sin and death by joining us to the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are born children of a fallen humanity; in the waters of Baptism we are reborn children of God and inheritors of eternal life. by water and the Holy Spirit we are made members of the Church which is the body of Christ. As we live with him and with his people, we grow in faith, love and obedience to the will of God."

Also if you will notice Baptism is important because in brings people into the Church of God, so even if by some weird chance the doctrine is proclaimed false then the sacrament is still important.

__________________
"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

HURRY TURKEY!!! PLEASE LET Mehmet Ali Agca OUTTA PRISON SOON

As i said earlier the key to this is that they didn't actually have an official doctrine on the issue so the Pope can offer his opinion. As far as i understand Church structure for the Catholics major decisions have to made by church bodies if you are going to change church law (so if he wanted to make the forty five rule he would need a church council) these councils can range from just the cardinals to every bishop in the Catholic church gathering (those councils are called Vatican I and II).

__________________
"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

LOL Mare, you make me laugh. So in other words anyone who died and wasn't baptised before this proclamation will be stuck in limbo, as it only relates to those who die under those circumstances from now on? Bummer huh

LOL, and you've read my thoughts before on the "burning bush" ... (something along the lines of LSD.....) I just find the whole situation laughable that regardless of how or whether the Church adopts willy-nilly doctrinal changes to suit themselves whether they make sense or not, the "flock" (or should that be renamed "lemmings?") take it as Gospel without question? If only more people would question the validity of a lot of what is taught as doctrine then I think religion overall would be in a far better place, and would probably have a lot more social and community support.

And what makes Scripture Scripture?
It's because it was selected and approved by a council of The Catholic Church.

You praise the fruit and curse the tree..........

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Not at all the Catholics believe that certain books are scripture that i think have no bearing (the Apocrypha). Thus i have a smaller Bible than they do. Luther did change what those Catholic coucils said was scripture.

__________________
"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

No more original sin? SWEET! Of course, as the church continues to edit itself in painfully obvious ways to try and fill its pews, they will continue to try and make themselves more appealing to a people that won't fall for 'because we said so'. (example "Why is there a big man that's invisible?" "Because we said so". "Why is mastrubation (or insert anything you think is fun) a big sin?" "Because we said so! Now stop asking questions and...hey, where are you going?"

"Why don't you convey the message of Christ of love your enemies, love those who would harm you, live only in rags?" Because obviously it's unpopular. To them, a lot of messages are toned down so people can be kept in the pews. They can still do some of god's work, and do it on a larger scale rather than doing all of it on a smaller scale. Quantity over quality.

You have to wonder for how long this mentality has been going on, and if it has been going on for millienia, how much of the original message is left.

ah, best part about Catholicism. It's the only one true and infallible religion that can change it's mind so often on so many of its core beliefs and still be "infallible." i think the eyeroll should be obvious enough i don't have to use the emoticon ...

Most of my Catholic friends have believed for years that an innocent child (under the age of accountability) that dies will go to heaven. Baptists have always believed it.

__________________


"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"