I think that religious views are unique to each person to an extent, and only you can decide which one goes along best with your interpretation of Christianity.

As an agnostic/atheist I cant really help you make that decision, but in my opinion it seems that Socialism's view of equality and sharing benefits goes along better with Christian morals than conservative capitalism, which encourages people to compete with one another and only have their own interests in mind. But what do I know?

for one, your assuming that people in a capitalist society are only capable of thinking about themselves. however, research has shown that the conservative communities of america give more to charities than the liberal community.
for two, you are assuming that a governmental approach to distrubiting benefits would be more efficient and practical than allowing people to do so on their own private initiative, and a mountain of evidence and common sense challenges that.

my argument would be that whichever form of government gives people the best access to real sustainable income is most likely to provide an environment where Christ's social policies could be realized. the whole idea is for individuals to find it in their hearts to give and sacrifice for others to demonstrate Christ-like love. this is not a process which government can fulfill. government, by some miracle, my be able to adminstrate social justice, but it would remove the personal and individual aspect which Christ challenged us to do.

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

I think Christianity is more in tune with production, efficiency, and the centralization wealth. For centuries the church taught that idleness was to be avoided, as it leads to temptation. I think this teaching is a big part of the modern tendency in industrialized economies to work long hours and maximize efficiency.

This is central to both socialism and capitalism. Which is one reason why we see Christianity promoted in both spheres. The Christian tradition serves the state equally well in both cases.

This can also explain why people who like me, who could care less about the economy or civilization (defined as the centralization wealth into cities) are openly hostile to religion. Religion is just another tool that enslaves and serves the master, be it for any political ideology.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I think you're right about this. Christianity, as a religion can and has been used by all spectrums of political/economic theory.

I think the reason is that it offers pratically no instructions to government or macro-economics. The individual is told to be generous. The individual is told to care for the poor. But nothing is directed at the government. I don't think Jesus ever once suggested that the Romans should embrace such-and-such a policy; all morals were directed to the individual person.

exactly. trying to decipher a politcal ideology out of Christ's teachings is like trying to make apple juice with lemons.

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

Unless we are looking at a christian theocracy, like the holy roman empire for instance.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

1. Im not assuming people in a capitalist society are only thinking of themselves. I know thats not true, I do live in America. But it is true that capitalism advocates competition and motive for personal gain, at least on an economic level. Plus... assuming Socialism can be represented by liberal Americans and Capitalism by conservative Americans doesnt make much sense at all.

2. I never said anything about efficiency or practicality. That's an entirely different topic.

[quote=htperr6565;982313][quote=Annie;982066]Seems to me that socialism and even communism are very much the outcome of Christianity, from Christ's words. As I said, not evangelical so I can't go chapter and verse for you. But simply the eye of the needle; the least of my brothers; give your cloak; etc.

[quote=Annie;983322][quote=htperr6565;982313]give your cloak = socialism? how so?

and i do find it ironic that you can say communism and socialism are the outcome of Christ's words and then say, "well, i dont really know much about Christ's words."

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

actually, on a very general level, it does make sense.

most western socialist ideologies simply advocate heavier taxation for social welfare within a capitalist economy. so referring to the two like they are completely separate doesnt make much sense either.

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

actually, there is a difference between deciphering a political ideology from Christian doctrine and simply using the Christian religion for pre-existing political motives.

__________________
Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

Which brings up an interesting point. Could we not state this about all political ideologies, that they are cloaks for the most basic of political motives - power?

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

In asking about motivations, aren't we drifting more into questions about people than about ideologies? Whether it is using used as a cloak for something else depends not on the ideology in question, but on the person using it.

Some people have advocated communism primarily (perhaps solely) because they believe it is the best and most equitable system for mankind. Others have quite obviously used it to obtain personal power.

Any ideology can be a cloak or disguise if it is used as such. But that depends completely on the individual using it, not on the ideology itself.

[quote=htperr6565;983327][quote=Annie;983322]Hey, if you are refuting my recollection, cool.

Oooh, I didnt know we were speaking generally. Can I also assume American Liberals represent Anarchists and American Conservatives represent Fascists? When you look up statistics, do it for the actual group (ie: try um, maybe American Socialists?). Most American liberals are not nor have ever been socialists... and maybe some that are conservative on most issues aren't necessarily capitalists... Statistics you get from a "very general level" don't really help your argument look like a good one


Since the topic starter wasn't asking about specific ideologies... I guess I thought they were asking about the basic form of each theory, which are defined as...

Socialism - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Capitalism - an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

...assuming this, the dictionary seems to think they are separate, and even opposites . Noone was talking about specific ideologies, and the ones you describe sound like some sort of social democracy, which isnt socialism.