But the ideology is for the people, the masses, the herds. The people with power only subscribe to an ideology second, they seek power first.

E.g. After the fall of soviet communism the oligarchs who controlled the resources retained control of the resources because that was the source of their power, communism or capitalism did not alter their position at the top.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Wouldn't that be an ideology of sorts in and of itself?

Absolutely. But it is universal.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

That seems something of a blanket statement. I'm not sure I'm quite cynical enough to believe that everyone seeks power about all else.

Oh i think you are right. Not everybody seeks power above all else. (I certainly don't). What i meant is that throughout history and throughout every culture, despite all the different customs and ideologies/religions, the one constant is that the alpha-ape has always sought power above all else.

Unfortunately for those of us who don't seek power, we are destined to liver under the boot of those that do.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Ah, I see. Well that sounds likely enough. I would expect that those who seek after power are more likely, on average, to get it than those who are seeking after something else.

i stand corrected. the statistic represented leftists, not liberals. leftists are more 'socialistic' (safe to say)

funny how you criticize my 'general' approach and then you go to the dictionary for a definiton of socialism. sorry if i try to connect the discussion to actual practices of the ideology. cannot social democracy fall under the umbrella of socialism? isnt that the most likely expression of the ideology in western politics?

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Anyone with a vision needs to see an eye doctor. -Helmut Schmidt.

"Mrs. Palin, which specific journals and news sources do you read? (after being asked once)"

"Oh, All of them!"

“Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.” Matthew 20:14 (KJV).

In a slightly larger context (this is all within a parable):

Yes. Attaining power is probably much easier than attaining a socialist paradise.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Leftists does make more sense. I guess that was kind of hypocritical of me, but you have to admit, "leftists" is more broad than "socialists". You and I just took different approaches to answering the question. Anyways... I guess we went of topic with all this...

Yeah that was the definition 80 years ago. Nowadays thats called communism and socialism now stands for a social democracy.

At least in Europe.

Well... Communism is a more advanced stage of socialism. Communism is like socialism (private property is controlled by the community/state), but in Socialism workers are paid according to the quality and quantity of their work, and personal property still exists. Socialism is an economic system. In Communism everyone is paid equally in an effort to eliminate class distinctions, and only paid enough to survive... people only get their "needs", no material "wants". For communism to work in its purest form, production would have to be extremely high and everybody would have to work hard (no lazy people)... which hasn't happened. The ultimate goal of communism is to eventually eliminate classes, money, and eventually, government. This isn't always the case in Socialism.

At least according to Marx.

And... Social democracy isn't socialism. It's a mixed economy with strong social elements (like welfare, health care, etc.) Yeah.

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